Denethor, Faramir, Boromir

[Haradrim]

I have a question.
Why exactly did Denethor dislike Faramir. I mean was it just the fact that he lost a couple of times or was it something more? I would like to find out more on this matter. My personal feeling is that Gandalf chose Faramir. He liked him more and he talked with him more. Maybe Denethor was against this as Boromir would be the next steward? Maybe he resented his favor of Faramir when Faramir could be nothing but a failure in Denethor's eyes? Discuss.

[Radagast The Brown]

Apparently, Dnethor preferred Boromir, as he was more like him - while Faramir liked to read and learn more. Faramir wanted to go to Rivendell, but Boromir said he will since he's the older - and probably stronger, so it would ber easier to him, and he'd get there faster, can't remember really. Anyway, Boromir left, and died as you know. So the relationship between them got worse... I believe Denethor still liked Faramir, though, he was just disappointed, and preferred Boromir. Remember that Denethor was also affected by Sauron.

[Olmer]

Originally Posted by Radagast The Brown

Faramir wanted to go to Rivendell, but Boromir said he will since he's the older - and probably stronger, so it would ber easier to him, and he'd get there faster, can't remember really.

It was Denethor himself who sent Boromir to Rivendell.
In this light the whole story, concocted by Boromir, about coming to interpret the dream sounds too dubious. Denethor knew about the Ring.

[Attalus]

You know, I have always wondred if Boromir made it up about even having the dream. Faramir doubtless told him of the details. So Boromir claimed the adventure for himself, and Denethor indulged his favorite, who was, BTW, not like him, according to Gandalf.

[Olmer]

Originally Posted by Attalus

So Boromir claimed the adventure for himself, and Denethor indulged his favorite, who was, BTW, not like him.

But who , without doubt,"would have brought ... a mighty gift" to him.

[Attalus]

No, he would have fallen, and, when he reurned, Denethor would not have known his son.

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Attalus

...So Boromir claimed the adventure for himself, and Denethor indulged his favorite, who was, BTW, not like him, according to Gandalf.

Agreed... at least in capabilities, I think Faramir was much more like Denethor. In attitude and ambition however, Boromir was much more like Denethor. I think fathers of sons can see different aspects of themselves respresented in each one (and cringe therebye ).

[Haradrim]

But why did he like Boromir more. What did he see in him that he saw in himself ( and cringe thereby ) Was it just the fact that Boromir would be steward or was it something more?

[Halbarad of the Dunedain]

Im not sure if this has been said before but as I understand it it Faramir looked more like his mother, and the memory and the death of Denethors wife troubled him greatly. Everytime he looked on Faramir he saw his wife, a wife no more. Also his "dislike" if we could call it that was fuled by looking into the Palantir, it didn't control him like saruman but it did things obviously to his head. Furthermore this all was fueled by Faramirs unlikeness to Denethor. He was gentler and kind of more noble. He was lerned and prefered books and learning and the lore of the elves. Gandalf was a friend of his and Denethor became uneasy with gandalf as the years went on. Further more... Faramirs few losses and defeats in battle fueled the dislike even more, and the death of his beloved Borimir(instead of Farimir), so i would say that when the two were first born he cared for them both equally.

[Haradrim]

So to sum up so far:
Denethors reasond for not liking Faramir:
1. Reminded him of his wife through looks
2. Friends with Gandalf
3. Palantir
4. His few victories and more losses
5. His almost more nobleness
6. Likes books a lot and is mor elearned
7. Gandalf doesnt really like Boromir
8. Boromir dies

Well thats a lot of reasons to dislike ones son. Feel free to add more reasons. use numbers so we can keep track of how many there are.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

I think the main ones there are 2, 3 and 8 for had it been Faramir who had gone to Rivendell and died then the roles could be some what swapped.

[Haradrim]

Do you think Denethor would have grieved Faramir's death? Also Im not sure he would have died had Faramir gone. He probably could have held off the tug of the ring for much much much longer than Boromir. Cuz Boromir saw a weapon while Faramir knew the costs of the weapon. I think that maybe the hobbits wouldnt have been seperated from Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, and Faramir. But would they have found Gandalf. If not then who would have saved Rohan and if Rohan wasnt saved then Gondor wouldnt be saved. So maybe Boromir did die for something in the end.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

I agree that Boromir died for something as Aragorn said to him that few had achieved such victory.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Olmer

In plain words good old Gandalf was implying that Boromir is a bastard, otherwise how Westernesse's blood of the father could run in one son and not in other.

On the other hand, it could just be some genetics at work here.

Originally Posted by Haradrim

3. Palantir

We don't know just what Denethor saw in the PalantÃ*r, but I doubt he was seeing something that made him dislike Faramir.

Originally Posted by Haradrim

7. Gandalf doesnt really like Boromir

I'd like to see your proof for this, nothing I've read seems to imply that.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

We don't know just what Denethor saw in the PalantÃ*r, but I doubt he was seeing something that made him dislike Faramir.

I think that Haradrim meant that the palantir twisted Denethors mind so he saw things in a different way to the way he used to.