Deaths among the Atani

[Artanis]

What is a natural death for the Atani?

We know about the Númenorean kings of old, who at old age gracefully resigned from their duties and passed the sceptre on to the next generation, and then lied themselves down to die. They had finished their task in Arda and it was time for them to leave. Aragorn too followed this tradition when his reign in Gondor had come to an end. I would say that this is indeed a natural death for a Man in Tolkien's world, as opposed to striving to stay alive as long as the physical body is able.

Under which circumstances is it possible for one of the Atani to die by will?

Again, it seems that Men were able to die wilfully at old age. But there is at least one known person who died a seemingly wilful death when still young: RÃ*an, wife of Huor, who gave birth to her son Tuor, and afterwards went forth into the wild to die. As I see it, she did not want to live anymore when she learned that her husband was slain in the Nirnaeth. But was this death natural? Was it a fault in her, not wanting to proceed with her life? Is it an option for all of Men, to die peacefully of free choice when life seems unbearable, even if your mind and body would be strong and healthy still for many years? If this is true, why then did Túrin have to cast himself upon his sword in order to end his life, and why did Nienor have to cast herself in the river Teiglin?

[Arien the Maia]

I think that this was the true gift of Eru to Men. The ability to be able to give up thier earthly life when ever they wanted. However, Men fell under the sway of Melkor and began to fear their gift. I think that any Man who was in Beleriand, away from Melkor could eventually reclam their gift to an extent. (of course their original life-span would have been diminshed)

[Beor]

I think that the origional gift to Men was that they could die any damn time they wanted. I think they were "born" into the world with a natural curiosity, as anyone would be, and they were given time to look around, and see what was going on. ONce they were content, they could go home. From what I understand, it is almost like Men (as a general term, *ahem*) were visitors to Arda, and their home is elswhere (in an etheral sense). I think that when they wanted to leave, they had the choice, whereas the elves had to stick around until closing time. And thats the rest of the story.

[Rían]

Interesting points about the difference between RÃ*an's death and Túrin's and Nienor's deaths. I had never thought of that - how she seemed to be able to give up her life, while Túrin had to fall on a sword, and Nienor had to jump off a cliff.

I think it was a fault in RÃ*an to die like she did. I think it would have been a better choice to stay with her newborn son. The bit in UT where it says "By hard fate was she born into such days, for she was gentle of heart and loved neither hunting nor war. Her love was given to trees and tothe flowers of the wild, and she was a singer and a maker of songs. Two months only had she been wedded to Huor when he went with his brother to the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, and she never saw him again. " explains it a bit, but doesn't excuse it, IMO.


(I chose her name for my username because I thought it looked and sounded pretty, but I was never happy with her leaving her son, altho I could understand it and sympathize with her somewhat - she seemed mad with grief.)

[Sister Golden Hair]

Again, it seems that Men were able to die wilfully at old age. But there is at least one known person who died a seemingly wilful death when still young: RÃ*an, wife of Huor, who gave birth to her son Tuor, and afterwards went forth into the wild to die. As I see it, she did not want to live anymore when she learned that her husband was slain in the Nirnaeth. But was this death natural? Was it a fault in her, not wanting to proceed with her life? Is it an option for all of Men, to die peacefully of free choice when life seems unbearable, even if your mind and body would be strong and healthy still for many years? If this is true, why then did Túrin have to cast himself upon his sword in order to end his life, and why did Nienor have to cast herself in the river Teiglin?

I'm not so sure that what Rian did was unnatural. I would think her choice of dying by means of grief would not have been a quick process. Turin and Nienor were suddenly released from under a spell and awakened to a terrible reality. The choice of suicide was hastey and death was quick.

[Michael Martinez]

Originally Posted by Sister Golden Hair

I'm not so sure that what Rian did was unnatural. I would think her choice of dying by means of grief would not have been a quick process. Turin and Nienor were suddenly released from under a spell and awakened to a terrible reality. The choice of suicide was hastey and death was quick.

Who is to say that Rian's death was not suicide? It is romantic to say she died of grief, but in her grief, did she eat? How long did it take her to reach the mound?