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01-16-2004, 09:42 PM | #1 |
Quasi Evil
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The Official US President Election Thread
ok Im just gonna start it myself then. ive actually been waiting for one of the big shots here to start this thread for months now but now one has. so here we can discuss our thoughts on the possibilities for and the ramifications of the 2004 american presidential election.
for those unfamiliar with how it works, since there is currently a first term republican in the white house, the republican party has no need to find a candidate. Bush is their candidate by default. the democrats however need to find someone to run against him in November so theres a gaggle of them running about the country stumping and hand shaking and saying vote for me cause im special. So who do you think is gonna be president come January 2005? Who do you think is going to be the democratic nominee? Dean? Someone else? Personally I would love to see a Clark/McCain ticket. But Im probably the only one. I still cant see how Dean could beat Bush. Maybe if he brings in Edwards or someone southern for VP but even then I just don’t see it. Unless of course things go down hill economy wise or war wise or some X factor rears its head before then that pops Bush’s balloon and opens this thing wide open. Ok have at it. And be nice its just opinion about possibilities not a soap box for preaching your particular brand of politics to the masses and arguing with all the heathens that disagree with you.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
01-16-2004, 09:58 PM | #2 | ||
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How exactly does voting work in the United States? How do you get votes in the Electoral College? Do you vote for the Vice President and the President at the same time?
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01-16-2004, 10:09 PM | #3 |
Elven Warrior
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Suddenly it has become very important the Iraq get an autonomous government before the elections.
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01-16-2004, 10:17 PM | #4 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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McCain can't be on Clarks ticket unless McCain actually switches parties.
The way each state votes is up to the states. We aren't necessarily guaranteed direct voting of the President. One state may vote for president through the state legislature and another may have popular vote. It is the states that elect the president through the electors. Right now all states vote for the electors by popular vote. This was to protect the small states representation - since we are a country of states with unique state rights. Quote:
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Hope this helps Nurvingiel. I can respond in a little greater detail later. There are numerous places on Entmoot where I discuss how the US elects the president.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 01-16-2004 at 10:20 PM. |
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01-16-2004, 11:42 PM | #5 |
Hobbit
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I hope you/we will get rid of Bush, and I hope the american people will be smart enough to do it(and to bother to vote), even though he recently caught Saddam.
The real question is of course who´s going to represent the democrats. I haven´t really had time or the possibility to gain enough info about the different candidates to have a clear opinion, but so far I think that either Clark or Dean is going to get it. Dennis J. Kucinich - is probably to leftwing, don´t think he stands a chance. John Kerry - seems reasonable, but I don´t think he stands a chance against Bush, he seems to academic. John Edwards - I find him one of the most worthy, he seems constructive. But I don´t believe he stands a chance against Bush Al Sharpton - not a chance in hell against Bush, and I don´t really like preachers either. Richard A. Gephardt - seems reasonable, but I think he´s been in the Washington to long, seems as though that´s negative for the nominees. Wesley K. Clark - I think he absolutely stands a chance after his critic against the Iraq-war. If he improves his political knowledge in internal affairs, I think he can be a good president. Joseph I. Lieberman - seems like a reasonable guy, but I don´t think he seems like the contrast to Bush people wants and he was pro Iraq. Howard Dean - can stand a chance against Bush, he´s been very aggresive against the war and Bush´s negative budgets. But what does he want? I haven´t really got that, sometimes it seems as though the only thing he is is con Bush. This is just my subjective opinions based on the few facts I´ve been able to gain so far. It´s interesting to see that Carol Moseley Braun didn´t go through with it. Not that I think she had a chance in hell, but still. Anyone who knows the reason why she stepped back? (Sorry about any bad english in this reply, but it´s written in the middle of the night after a long day of speaking norwegian, german, english and portugeese.) |
01-16-2004, 11:55 PM | #6 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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I like Lieberman - but that would be a disaster for foreign policy - we;d never get anything done in the Middle East because he's jewish (sad to say). I'm not sure what Clarks deal is. He just seems like an oppurtunist. I liked Clark for a while, but I don't trust him really. Are you American though? I thought you weren't. If you aren't - can you tell me how "you" are going to get rid of Bush or have a say in our next president as indicated in this statement "I hope you/we will get rid of Bush"? I'm not saying you can't have an opinion, but it just annoys me when foreigners think they have a say in our elections - when it is the choice of the AMERICAN people.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 01-17-2004 at 12:00 AM. |
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01-17-2004, 12:13 AM | #7 | |
Quasi Evil
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unfortunately its money that is the bain of the american political system. its why its really corrupt at the core because the presidency is bought and sold by people with money. they have tried to reform soft money and all that but bush still clears millions of dollars from big business reps who want to influence him if he wins. so when he does win he is unlikely to go against those companies and individuals who gave him tons of money. thats how our system works unfortunately. so the little guy cant last and the big guy follows the people with the most cash.
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01-17-2004, 12:32 AM | #8 | |
Corruptor
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01-17-2004, 12:45 AM | #9 | |
Hobbit
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I´m not american, and what I meant by you/we is that I hope the whole world is relieved of the pressure of having an ignorant US president. I did not mean that I, personally, could do anything to get rid of Bush. That the majority of americans support Bush may be very incorect, I gues that the approval rating is based on polls, and polls will always be inacurate. Besides, USA have a big problam in low electionparticipation. Way to few use their right and responsibility to vote. I think that if people thought there would be a point in voting, that if the democrats and republics appaered as opposites, or if even a third party came, they would use their vote. After the tricking with counting of votes in the last election I guess you will have an even lower participation, people don´t bother. Besides, with your media no one can really know what´s going on in your own country or the world. I know that what I write may seem very offencive to many americans, but this is how much of the world feels. EDT: Btw, did Bush ever accomplish anything before he became president? I mean, his daddy put him to work here and there, but he didn´t do very well did he? Hopeless that a person without abilities should have such a job. But I must acknowledge him for being smart in a foxlike way, he knows his ways around. Last edited by Lótiel : 01-17-2004 at 12:50 AM. |
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01-17-2004, 01:00 AM | #10 |
High King of Númenórë
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I'm not even getting involved in this thread, I already see it going in the direction of the Iraq thread. I will say this though. I am registered Independant and have always voted Democratic. However, I will be voting for Bush come election time. I dislike the way the Democrats are handling themselves. I think they are all a joke, with the exception of Edwards and Lieberman. I think Edwards is the only one of the bunch who seems sincere and isn't an asshole, lol. Plus I like the fact that he declared that he was running for the Presidency on the "Daily Show with Jon Stewart"
Either way, I like the things Bush has done, especially the way he handled 9/11. Growing up and living in New York the majority of my life, certainly has helped the cause. I know a lot of my New York friends and family feel the same way, regardless of their political affiliation. It's weird and hard to explain if you don't live in the NY/NJ area, but there is a bond to that area that and when someone stands up and does as much as they can, especially in a tragic instance as that was, it only makes your native heart grow closer in that respect. I think the fact that being from that area, you are drawn more close to it and relate to it more than someone from California, who only feels the sympathy of their fellow countryman. I'm sure others from that area will understand what I am saying more, lol...
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
01-17-2004, 01:11 AM | #11 | ||||||||||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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A person can't be all over the world and the US is. Therefore they have advisors. Quote:
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There wasn't any tricking of the votes. You might want to read the Constitution. Gore too the counting to the courts, Bush appealed. The Constitution states that the Supreme court will rule under such circumstances when it's state vs state or person from one state against a person of another state. I've posted the Constitution tons of times here but here is the quote... Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 01-17-2004 at 01:19 AM. |
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01-17-2004, 01:26 AM | #12 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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01-17-2004, 01:32 AM | #13 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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IR - I had thought about starting this thread. But I had a feeling it would turn into a Bush bashing thread with people from around the world saying that the US has controlled media and all this crap. Usually what's amazing is it's from people who have never been to the US - or only experienced it for a short time - yet they seem to know oh so much about us. Must be because of their superior and unbiased news media - yeah right.
Anyway - I had started the Democratioc Debates thread up a while ago to discuss the election - at least from the stantpoint of the debates.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 01-17-2004 at 01:40 AM. |
01-17-2004, 01:37 AM | #14 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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You should think about doing some in depth research before making such know it all claims. Now, excuse me while I ban myself. I forsee this thread being closed.
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01-17-2004, 01:41 AM | #15 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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After looking at the Democratic Debate thread - I see this thread going down the very same road as Dunedain said. It ended up with Graymouser arguing about Iraq and Bush.
I also agree with SGH - hence the reason I chose not to start this thread. It was just going to be more of the usual American bashing from the rest of the world.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
01-17-2004, 01:58 AM | #16 |
Quasi Evil
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so then you all are saying its impossible to discuss election potentials without having a coronary? Thats pretty sad. I think its very possible. its all opinion about whos better then who and who you think will win. Im interested in the horse race and what will come out of it. So i hardly get upset when someone says Im againt Bush or Im against Dean or whatever. thats fine. who cares? its just opinion. Lets not get so hypersensative that we water down everything.
Now, what issues do you think the election will hinge on? In other words what could sway people away from Bush and toward a democratic candidate in the next 10 months or so. Would it have to be a big disaster or could it be done in little chops?
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
01-17-2004, 02:01 AM | #17 | |
High King of Númenórë
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
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01-17-2004, 02:08 AM | #18 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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01-17-2004, 02:08 AM | #19 | |
High King of Númenórë
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Other than that though, I am just not sure at this point. Things have been pretty ugly in the Dem. race so far and I think people are getting sick of the constant bashing and smear campaigns...
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
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01-17-2004, 02:13 AM | #20 |
High King of Númenórë
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Hmmm, Edwards is 49, lol, I thought he was younger than that, lol. There goes my theory!
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
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