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05-25-2004, 01:18 PM | #1 |
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What if SMAUG had gotten The One Ring?
OK - I know JRRT wasn't even thinking about LotR when he wrote 'The Hobbit'... but treating this as 'discovered history' rather than 'fiction' - imagine this scenario:
Bilbo's second visit to Smaug's lair... Bilbo is a bit slower getting out, or Smaug decides to take a blast in his general direction a bit sooner... with less provocation. He sees a form engulfed in the flame of his breath... or just his flames flickering in and out of visibility... until Bilbo is consumed and 'CLING'... with a ringing sound, a gold ring falls to the floor. Smaug picks it up... curiously. "What's this thing that didn't burn up in my firey breath?" He examines it, notices how it grows to fit his finger, tries it on... and discovers its nature. What happens next? (OR - if his breath DID melt it - I guess there'd be no 'Lord of the Rings' story. Sauron would have withered away, with all his plans and his ringwraiths... Gandalf could have returned to the West and the work of the Elven Rings would have begun to fade. Then Smaug could have had the 13 dwarves for lunch (invisible... heehee! ))
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05-25-2004, 03:12 PM | #2 |
Elven Warrior
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That question makes me even more intrigued to read all of the books. It sure is interesting just when you hear people talking about it.
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05-25-2004, 03:48 PM | #3 |
the Shrike
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Val, what on earth goes through your mind when you're sitting at home shivering in your underoos? I mean really: invisisisible dragons? Were you an odd child?
Interesting though, I wonder if he would've gone Dwarvish, and just craved it for it's goldenliciousness, or whether he would've had illusions of power....
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05-25-2004, 04:35 PM | #4 | |
The Tall
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It would be interesting to find out the nature of the dragons.
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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08-13-2004, 02:52 AM | #5 | ||
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08-13-2004, 05:49 AM | #6 | ||
Elf Lord
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08-18-2004, 09:24 AM | #7 |
The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot
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Ive always thought it has something to do wiuth the innate pwer of the subject. If the weilder is powerful then it can do anything if the weilder is on the weaker end it makes him invisible. I think if the dragon got he would throw it into his pile without a second thought but if he did put it on it would probably mak ehim incredibly strong, able to fly fast, and super hot breath.
btw I always thought it had nothing to do with the heat of Mount Doom but the fact that that was where it was created and there was something innate about it. |
04-18-2008, 02:09 AM | #8 |
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This discussion moved off the point too early,
The intruiging question is, what would be the consequence if Smaug got hold of the ring and kept it inside the Lonely Mountain?
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05-25-2004, 04:40 PM | #9 |
Lurker
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Well, yes, but it was his Ring. I think it makes pretty much everyone invisible, only since it's Sauron's he can make it do what he wants.
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05-25-2004, 04:53 PM | #10 | |
The Tall
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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05-25-2004, 04:58 PM | #11 |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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I wonder if beings of a higher order could determine whether it made them invisible or not... if that feature could be turned 'on' or 'off'. In fact, before someone gave me an explanation from HoMe along the lines of what you're saying, I had wondered if Isildur, when he put it on, 'ordered' or 'willed' it to make him invisible... and if it was still in that mode over 3000 years later - either from nobody (neither Gollum, Bilbo nor Frodo) thinking to command it otherwise, or not having the same strength of will as Isildur, being unable to reverse the 'setting'
Remember that, man though he was, Isildur 'cursed' a whole people into a restless death... Could he not have had a measure of control over the operation of the Ring? To an extent anyway?
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05-25-2004, 04:59 PM | #12 |
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There's a teensy problem with Smaug melting the Ring:
"...nor was there ever any dragon, not even Ancalagon the Black, who could have harmed the One Ring, the Ruling Ring, for that was made by Sauron himself." And maybe the nazgul could have run around Smaug distracting him until they could pinch the ring. Or: Shelob as Ring Lady? Dances around Mount Doom thinking about ancestor Ungoliant's contratemps with Morgoth: "I'm on top o' the world, ma!" (Just before Orodruin blows up ). (Old movie allusion) (With Jimmy Cagney?)
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05-26-2004, 12:21 AM | #13 | ||
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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05-26-2004, 09:26 AM | #14 |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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Maedhros - I don't understand your post.
If you're trying to say those quotes indicate that Isildur could not possibly have any control whatsoever over any aspects of the Ring's power, I don't see it there. And I am not sure why you mention that about Gandalf at the end. (EDIT: - Oh, were you answering your own question from before?) AND... I don't see anything there that relates to what would happen if a dragon got ahold of the Ring... What do you think would happen in THAT case? WOULD it automatically make him invisible? If not, COULD it make him invisible if he willed it?
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! Last edited by Valandil : 05-26-2004 at 09:59 AM. |
05-26-2004, 09:27 AM | #15 | |
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05-26-2004, 02:50 PM | #16 | |
The Tall
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1. Is invisibility and inherent property of the Ring? 2. Why does the ring made Men and hobbits invisible? 1. I don't think that invisibility is an inherent property of the Ring, rather a side effect of the Men and hobbits who wore it. 2. Perhaps it turned them invisible because a: They could not master the Ring. b: They because they had a lesser control over their hröa in respect to Maiar, is the reason that they turned invisible. IMO, I think that it depends on the nature of the Dragon. It depends on their hröa control. I don't think that they would turn invisible, just because of the power that Morgoth used in breeding them, but that is just speculation.
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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04-18-2008, 02:13 AM | #17 |
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I believe it would have just gotten to Sauron that much faster. Smaug was an evil spirit (like Glaurung), and therefore probably pretty much under the control of Sauron.
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04-18-2008, 02:15 AM | #18 | |
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I was more under the impression he was a kind of independent-minded dragon But there may be evidence to the contrary I guess..
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04-18-2008, 02:18 AM | #19 |
The Ñoldóran
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I've only read The Hobbit once (and don't intend to do so again), but I'm basing what I know on Glaurung... I could be wrong, though.
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04-18-2008, 04:20 AM | #20 |
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Glaurung at the time was born and bred in the Thangorodrim. He grew strong under the direct influence and control of Morgoth, who then simply let him out to play. This would not have applied to Smaug and Sauron. But Gandalf did worry that Smaug could become a more burning issue if Sauron intervened. Dragon fire in Rivendell and no queen for Gondor... Which is why Gandalf was keen to have Smaug out of the way before Sauron ever became into power again.
So it is very likely that Smaug would have joined in the fray of the War of the Ring if he had still been around. Possibly under Sauron's control, but more (I think) as an independant contractor.
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