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12-05-2003, 02:59 PM | #1 |
Elf Lord
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Book versus Film Peace Treaty Thead
My first reaction to Sister Golden Hair's announcement was to jump in and quote the Webster's definition for that nasty P-word that is evidently considered so derogitory. But the fact of the matter is, the people demanding a literal interpretation of Tolkien's LOTR have taken the p-word as a negative term and somebody's thrown out a truly negative term for the film lovers in response so I do understand and support the admin's position here.
It also seems to me that with the increase of new visitors and posters to this site as the anticipation and excitement builds for the new ROTK film, there has been an equal increase in aggressive film-bashing here. This is a time for all Tolkienites to be celebrating the world's focus on Lord of the Rings instead of engaging in a enthusiasm-sapping civil war. So being the noble Tolkien message board stateman that I am, I would like to propose a truce. Here are my suggestions for the terms of our truce: 1. No blanket name-calling. In addition to SGH's note about posters, I would propose that this include the film-makers, the books, or the films. You would continue to have every right to like or dislike things about the films. But defend your opinions with arguements that support your position, instead of resorting to simple name-calling. Name calling is not only a lazy person's way of debating (i.e. "Jackson is a hack," "the movies suck", etc.), it's boring to read and doesn't contribute to any ongoing debate or discussion. 2. Remember the popularity of the films are no threat to the books. The two classics can co-exist without one necessarily being better or worse than the other. I may have touched off some initial negative reactions here a year or so ago when I innocently posted that Peter Jackson has improved parts of the story. Gee whiz, I had no idea my comments would turn out to be so provocative! The fact of the matter is, the two complement each other very well. 3. Keep in mind, our opinions are not life-and-death. This is supposed to be fun. If you can't post stuff with a smile on your face, then maybe you should stick to just reading these threads and leave the posting to more mature people. There you have it!!!! I'm laying down the olive branch to all of my former sworn enemies. (Geez, I sorta feel like Henry Kissinger! Give me the next Nobel Peace Prize!) Okay, so come on over here, jerseydevil and Cirdan and the rest of you p..er, literal adaptation people...let's all have (((a group hug))) and then get in line for the opening of ROTK. Last edited by Black Breathalizer : 12-05-2003 at 03:02 PM. |
12-05-2003, 03:47 PM | #2 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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I have certain problems with yout truce.
1) Book fans constantly back up our reasons for disliking the movies. You just choose to ignore these reasons. I will still call Jackson what i think he is - which is a hack. Sorry - but that is the way it is. You can disagree with me - but I suggest you read all my points on my I think this is the case. Just because you ignore my points or disagree - does NOT mean that I and others have not stated reasons for our feelings. 2) "The two classics" - the movies are NOT classics at this point and may never get there. You claim for us not to dislike or criticize the movie before it comes out and say we are wrong in criticizing it. Why is it perfectly fine for you to praise a movie which hasn't even come out and call it a classic? 3) You have given NO indication that you have even read the books. You have gone so far as to post incorrect quotes that you claim characters have said. You then say how neither Jackson nor anyone else could have done a better job than he did. 4) You hardly ever have a smile on your posts and have been condescending toward anyone who does not like the movies. I however have no problems with people liking the movies, I just have a problem with the constant blind praise to Jackson. My criticisms of the movies are backed up with scenes, direction and characters I feel he did not do a good job with. Some I have a stronger feelings against than others. 5) NO ONE is looking for a "literal adaptation" this is another of your erroneous statements yuou keep posting. I have repeatedly said what I would have changed in the books. I just disagree with many of the changes Jackson made. Some very big and unnecessary changes. If you want to call us something - then call us Book Fans - because that is what we are. If you recognize my points and are able to accept them - I may be willing to negotiate a cease-fire. There are more of us book fans than you or other movie fans would like to admit. I will say this again - I give the movies a C as MOVIES. I looked through my posts and even though I hated FotR - I had given it a B as a MOVIE when it came out. I have now reduced it down to a C after seeing TT. The dwarf tossing jokes and so forth were unnecessary. I give the movies an F as a Lord of the Rings movie - C as general movie. They are no different than the many other action movies out there. They are typical spoon-fed hollywood action flicks.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 12-05-2003 at 03:53 PM. |
12-05-2003, 03:59 PM | #3 | |
Elf Lord
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12-05-2003, 04:01 PM | #4 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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12-05-2003, 04:14 PM | #5 |
Elven Warrior
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I basically agree, I think its time we end this....well...we can only say that until Rotk comes out though...a whole new hoard of things could come from that.
The only thing Im really sick of is the same old things being re-posted over and over,its like, okay we get it.....I think its pretty clear now who likes the movies and who doesnt. ..uhm......on second thought....I think this would be best held off until Rotk. You never know...it could be good enough or bad enough to change peoples minds! Peace.
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12-05-2003, 04:31 PM | #6 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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Pigheaded and stubborn are JD and BB. Silly boys.
You know BB it might be helpful if your PM feature worked. That way you guys could negotiate privately and then come back to the forum with your results, which would leave the rest of us waiting with baited breath to see. How exciting and fun.
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12-05-2003, 04:36 PM | #7 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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And I'm not stubborn - I'm right. There is a difference.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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12-05-2003, 05:09 PM | #8 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
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I, and other people, will continue to avoid this part of Entmoot because of continual violations of common courtesy. I'm glad to see you're trying to bring that back here.
In my opinion, suggesting the murder or various tortures of an artist one disagrees with is unacceptable in any form and should be cause for banning. That's my 2 cents and I'll be lurking but staying out of these discussions from now on. Pete
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12-05-2003, 05:13 PM | #9 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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Well BB, I can't say that I agree with all your terms, or your opinions, but I'll give you credit for trying to make peace.
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
12-05-2003, 05:17 PM | #10 | |
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12-05-2003, 05:19 PM | #11 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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12-05-2003, 05:27 PM | #12 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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As for just agreeing with what BB stated in bold, well, yes and no. I don't agree with #2 at all.
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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12-05-2003, 05:31 PM | #13 | |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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12-05-2003, 05:47 PM | #14 | ||
Queen of Nargothrond
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I wonder if there are any stats out there that someone could find to see how many movie goers became Tolkien educated before or after the movie.
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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12-05-2003, 05:55 PM | #15 | |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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As for the other, I don't see how the book could really be "threatened" by the success of the movie. Some people don't know exactly what Tolkien wrote, so what? Isn't that the case with any movie adaptation from a book? Can you think of any other books you consider 'threatened' thereby? Last edited by Valandil : 12-05-2003 at 05:57 PM. |
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12-05-2003, 06:04 PM | #16 | |
Elf Lord
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12-05-2003, 06:04 PM | #17 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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12-05-2003, 06:19 PM | #18 | |
High King of Númenórë
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen Last edited by Dúnedain : 12-05-2003 at 06:22 PM. |
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12-05-2003, 06:22 PM | #19 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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12-05-2003, 06:23 PM | #20 | |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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