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05-29-2004, 05:50 PM | #1 |
Fëanorophobic
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Wheel of Time discussions
People talk a lot about the reduced readability of the latest books (I'm on the 4th book myself and personally find that the series lost nothing of its shine or "momentum" so far); however, I started this thread for discussions about possible literary meanings or symbols you find in the series.
Anybody got posts? |
06-01-2004, 07:42 PM | #2 | |
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
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Sorry, not much on-topic, but a good joke ! Found it on some message-board:
In how many ways can Robert Jordan describe the problems of dealing with women? Think well before you check the answer.
Sorry, didn't really mean to drag this thread off-topic. But to be blunt, I don't think there are any deeper meanings or literary messages - at least I've not discovered any between all the braid-tugging and sniffing. Jordan doesn't seem to have grasped the idea of subtility (just spent two hours going through a Jordan-basher thread and it's two o' clock in the morning, may have something to do with it).
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Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle. Last edited by Falagar : 06-01-2004 at 07:46 PM. |
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06-01-2004, 07:52 PM | #3 |
Mirthful Maiden
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lol too true
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06-02-2004, 02:11 PM | #4 |
Fëanorophobic
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LOOOOOL great joke, man!
Don't worry about talking off-topic. I didn't find a lot of "deeper meanings" myself. I started the thread to see if other people could see what I couldn't. However, I can think of some stuff. Obviously, Rand is a Christ figure. I also think that the Aes Sedai represent the church or something. This way, the people's attitude toward them is explained: an attitude of fear but respect in some, hatred in others etc...as opposed to the old, reverent attitude (people used to respect church more). However, this doesn't make much sense as Rand appears in a time when Aes Sedai have long existed, whereas Christ founded the church. Any help here? |
06-02-2004, 02:20 PM | #5 |
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
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Mat and Perrin (and Rand, though IMO to a smaller degree) represent the careless, ignorant youth, and during their travels they grow more responisble and learn their ways up in the world. (At least they're supposed to, though it seems like they stop growing somewhere along the way and despite all that's happening to them just remain ignorant.)
Moiraine is a bit Christ-like; she tries to guide Rand (=humanity), sometimes succeeding and sometimes not, until she sacrifices herself in the end to save him (them) because of his (their) own shortcomings. Not particulary insightful but that's all I got time for now, got to run...
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Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle. Last edited by Falagar : 06-02-2004 at 02:24 PM. |
06-24-2004, 09:24 PM | #6 |
Elven Warrior
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Lol, Jordan does like to repeat himself on the Rand/Mat/Perrin and women thing.
The 4th book is still good. I think the series slows down around book 6 (Lord of Chaos, right?). Don't remember though, I just finished 9.
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10-23-2004, 01:10 PM | #7 | |
Elentári
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Quote:
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11-28-2004, 01:04 AM | #8 |
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Oh man. That one chapter where Rand is doing the thing to Saidin and Nyn is helping him (dun wanna give the plot away for any who haven't read it...) but man... that battle was THE MOSTEST TOTALLY WICKED THING EVER!!!!!!!!ONEONEONEONEONE!!!1
That is my fav. chapter from ANY book. |
11-28-2004, 03:47 AM | #9 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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12-05-2004, 08:40 AM | #10 |
Elentári
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That was a stunning part, but my fav was where they fixed the weather. That whole chapter was stunning!
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07-19-2004, 05:33 PM | #11 |
Fëanorophobic
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Mods, can you please close this?
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07-21-2004, 01:46 PM | #12 |
Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001
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Actually, on the subject of Rand being a Christ Figure:
Jesus didn't fully 'found' the Church, in a sense. There were already 'priests' of a sort, although getting very corrupt. Jesus changed the church and gave it a new foundation (read: the Black Tower). I would say that Rand as a Christ figure works out nicely . |
07-22-2004, 05:00 AM | #13 |
Fëanorophobic
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Thanks for reviving the thread, Tessar. But I beg to differ on one point. What existed before Christ was Judaism, not a church in the strict sense of the word. But your explanation is probably right if we modify it to say that Aes Sedai symbolize Judaist priests and Pharisees. But the problem is, that doesn't seem to make much sense either as the priests and Pharisees were dead set on opposing Christ (the only one who believed in Him that we know of is Nicodemus). I think then that Rand should be taken as a Christ figure, period. If you start thinking about his relation to other characters, the symbolism doesn't hold water.
But maybe RJ never intended his work to be Christian allegory? Maybe he didn't intend it to be symbolic at all? What do you think? |
07-22-2004, 12:35 PM | #14 |
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The priests ended up trying to use Christ to glorify their own way.
The White Tower tried to CAPTURE Rand and force him into submission so that he would be under their controll. It's fairly close, actually . |
07-22-2004, 02:13 PM | #15 | |
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07-22-2004, 06:03 PM | #16 |
Fëanorophobic
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I see what you mean, brownjenkins. Many times I felt that there is no depth to the books and that they were inteded just as a fantasy story to fascinate fans and entertain readers but nothing more...
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01-07-2008, 10:49 PM | #17 |
Elf Lord
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a new author will finish "A Memory Of Light" Brandon Sanderson, don't worry he is Harriet approved.
http://www.tor-forge.com/NewsArticle.aspx?articleId=647 an interview http://www.dragonmount.com/Books/Mem...terview_01.php
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"We are going to tickle some Aes Sedai under the chin, rescue a mule, and put a snip-nosed girl on the Lion Throne. Oh, yes. That's Aviendha. Don't look at her cross-wise or she'll try to cut your throat and probably slit her own by mistake."-Mat Cauthon from Wheel of Time "Don't make me angry, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry...."-Dr. Bruce Banner HULK BATMAN THE FLASH |
01-08-2008, 03:37 AM | #18 |
Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation
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Yes, I am rather interested to see where this goes. I hear he's gonna be very dedicated in his working.
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Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan) |
01-08-2008, 09:04 PM | #19 |
Advocatus Diaboli
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I wonder if it is still going to be around 2000 pages.
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01-15-2008, 02:51 AM | #20 |
Elf Lord
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i hope it will be i want nice long book o read!
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"We are going to tickle some Aes Sedai under the chin, rescue a mule, and put a snip-nosed girl on the Lion Throne. Oh, yes. That's Aviendha. Don't look at her cross-wise or she'll try to cut your throat and probably slit her own by mistake."-Mat Cauthon from Wheel of Time "Don't make me angry, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry...."-Dr. Bruce Banner HULK BATMAN THE FLASH |
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