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12-14-2002, 02:23 PM | #1 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Barad-Dur
Posts: 26
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Is Middle Earth worth fighting for? It seems empty and abandoned to me
As we all know, Middle Earth has been constantly plagued by warfare, throughout its entire history. But by the time the Dark Lord begins to rise again, is it REALLY worth fighting for? For all intents and purposes, this is the only section of Midddle Earth worth examining, as this is where LOTR takes place:
http://lotrmaps.middle-earth.us/maps/r3t_M48.gif http://lotrmaps.middle-earth.us/maps/r3t_M24.gif (Notes: the second map is the better map; I only chose the first one also because it lets you see the former Kingdom of Arnor. Both maps are from 2000 years before LOTR, so Gondor is much bigger). Now lets see: The North: Arnor. This kingdom was overrun by Sauron's forces, but by the time they had gotten there there wasn't much to overrun. Somehow the kingdom had fallen into a state of anarchy, and the kingdom just disappeared. Afterwards, even into LOTR, this place was leaderless. Settlements like Bree were some of the last vestiges of civilization up there. Moria: overrun by the Goblins. Isengard: Turned into a fortress for Sauron. Gondor: The maps above show Gondor at the height of its power. At the beginning of LOTR it was but a shadow of this. The Nazgul had taken over Minas Morgul and were knocking on the doors of Minas Tirith. Umbar, showed at the bottom of the map, was taken by the Harad. Dunland and Enedwaith had fallen out of the borders (to the West), as well as Dagorlad (the northeast). Calenardhon: Rohan? Amon Sul: ruins. Imladris: I assume this is where Elrond lives. This is the last place in Middle Earth where you will see Elves, once the mightiest of races, besides Lorien. Lorien: OK, so you may not be able to take the place using Orcs. However, put one Balrog there, and the place would be burning in ten minutes (Balrogs used to be Maiar, like Sauron). In fact, both maps have many small kingdoms. There are, however, two regions that are huge in comparison: the Harad and the Rhun. Both are ruled by uncivilized men, and both are allied with Sauron. If we were to show the ENTIRE Middle Earth, in fact, these two peoples would dominate the realms of the "civilized." And just how mighty are the civilized? In the movies, the only places where you see ANYONE, outside the Shire, is in the places mentioned above. When they are travelling between the Amon Sul and Elrond's house, for example, you see NOTHING. No other people, no other towns, nothing (except maybe Sauron's armies). Think for a minute. As they were going throughout Middle Earth in the first LOTR movie, you saw a lot of ruins. Most of the place, in fact was ruins. Only a few scattered places here and there, plus the realm of the Dark Lord. Middle Earth looks like it was mostly abandoned, with only a scattered people here and there. In fact, this is not far from the truth. In the Simarillion, there once were hundreds of thousands of Elves. However, in fighting Morgoth and Sauron, many thousands were mutated into Orcs and Goblins, and many others settled into the West. Remember how the land in which the Simarillion takes place (I believe it was called Bereliand), was utterly destroyed, and sunk? If so, many of the Gray Elves must have been also killed. How Elrond and Galadriel managed to escape from there before the entire land region went down under escapes me. So the Elves, once the mightiest of peoples, have mostly abandoned Middle Earth. After LOTR, there is not one Elf left on the continent. Who did they leave the land to? The Dwarves seemed to start out as a small race, mostly ruined from fighting Morgoth. Moria, one of their main homes was destroyed. (Another question: the Goblins there seemed to be living there, not like an army of Sauron. Can we conclude that this once was an army, but utterly fell into a state of anarchy, therefore becoming a microcosm of Middle Earth?) The Men you saw in the first LOTR movie, those were good examples of Men (keep in mind the fact of the Men at Bree, remaints of Arnor. These people seem to be degenerating back toward the uncivilized ways of the Harad and Rhun). Without a doubt, the vast majority of Men are uncivilized and allied to the Dark Lord. And the Hobbits are a very small minority. Without a doubt, the majority of that section of Middle Earth is covered with Orcs, and the rest by uncivilized Man. So, in conclusion, I believe that in the end, even though the Dark Lord was indeed defeated, this only saved the last vestiges of civilization on Middle Earth. That does not mean civilization will flourish. The vast majority of Middle Earth is still run by Orcs and uncivilized Man, and it seems like Darkness still rules the continent. Last edited by Dark Lord Sauron : 12-14-2002 at 10:41 PM. |
12-14-2002, 03:25 PM | #2 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2001
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You have a point there but in the end good nearly always prevailed
Welcome to the 'Moot!
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12-14-2002, 03:42 PM | #3 |
Orli's lil fan
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Sugar World/Orlando Bloom Cloud
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if you think about it, if Middle Earth is completly owned by Sauron and his evil minions, all the other races will be used as slaves or even killed. i'm sure no one would like to be a slave to Sauron seing as he is probably the most feared person in Middle Earth, so in a way, the races are fighting for freedom. That answer your question?
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12-14-2002, 03:48 PM | #4 |
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
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Everything can be rebuilt
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12-15-2002, 12:26 AM | #5 |
Empress of the Writewraiths
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Running around somewhere inside my head. So what are YOU doing here?!
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LOL. That was a very interesting introduction, um...Sauron. Hey! Everyone, ever notice that both Morgoth and Sauron are now among us and we don't seem to care much? LOL.
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12-15-2002, 01:18 AM | #6 |
Viggoholic
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,749
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Just some points I would like to make:
End of rant. You ask is ME worth fighting for? Well, yes, if you don't want to be Sauron's slave for the rest of you life! ME is not empty, you don't need to take over every little part of the world. Isn't the beauty of Rivendell, Lorien, the Shire or Minas Tirith worth fighting for?
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12-15-2002, 04:41 AM | #7 | ||||||
Elf Lord
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"For the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall rest." - Fëanor |
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12-15-2002, 06:07 AM | #8 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: charlotte, n.c.
Posts: 1,081
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It is often considered a "good fight" to defend your home or country. It is a fight for a "way of life". In that context ME is worth fighting for irregardless of population density.
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12-18-2002, 07:10 PM | #9 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 222
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Well.... I don't think anyone really wants to work for Sauron the rest of their lives.
Besides, he'll just grow in terms of power and go on to claim the Blessed Realm. I know the Valar are all powerful and everything, but if you keep giving up all the 'abandoned' places sooner or later he'll assult Valinor. Or maybe I'm just a pessimist.
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12-19-2002, 01:35 AM | #10 | |
Elf Lord
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12-19-2002, 08:44 AM | #11 | ||
Truest of Friends
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12-19-2002, 02:55 PM | #12 | |||
Dead
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Evil needs to win! I'm on the side of evil!
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How to Survive the Sillmarillion I thought that Alcohol was just for those with nothing else to do. I thought that drinking just to get drunk was a waste of precious booze. But now I know that there's a time and there's a place where I can choose To walk the fine line between self control and self abuse. "Lacerations make complications, but welts go away in a day." |
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12-20-2002, 12:19 AM | #13 | |
AngAdan
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Boerne, Texas
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12-20-2002, 01:50 AM | #14 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
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Hey Lefty, what happened to your sig?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
12-20-2002, 06:32 AM | #15 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The Second Drawer Down
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Well, I'd fight for the Shire! *smacks self over the head with shoe for sheer stupidity of that line* Well, I would! And for the Elves' homes. Hey, the Men can fight for themselves, OK? just kidding, don't kill me please. Oh, and the Dwarves... Hey, what are axes for?
Lanelf.
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12-20-2002, 09:23 AM | #16 |
Truest of Friends
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Pennsylvania, but I have a vacation home in the Westfarthing.
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I think that Lanelf has a point! Everyone would fight for their home (except perhaps the elves, since they could leave). No one else had an escape. Their choice was to fight and save themselves, or become servants of Sauron.
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12-21-2002, 11:35 AM | #17 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Halkirk
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A lot of people would fight for their home. I think the Elves would fight of their home.
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12-21-2002, 12:44 PM | #18 |
Orli's lil fan
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Sugar World/Orlando Bloom Cloud
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Sam says something about that in TTT, come to think of it!
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>>--elven arrow--> ~ Give a man a fish and he'll feed for a day, give me a fish and you'll only get it back! ~ I've gotta new avatar! looks kinda like me...anime style! ~ LOST: Orlando Bloom. If found, please send him straight to Elf.Freak |
12-21-2002, 02:48 PM | #19 |
Númenorean
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,050
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anything is worth fighting for under the right circumstances. you say that sauron controlled middle-earth? possibly some parts.. like his dominion of mordor..
the elves could flee to valinor. where could men and the other races go besides to thralldom and death if they hadnt fought? anything is worth fighting for
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