Multi-culturalism boon or bane?

[afro-elf]

Do you think that multi-culturalism has been a good thing or have it divided us further?

[Insidious Rex]

Isnt "multi-cuturism" a given in every society? We are a constantly evolving lot. Theres no stoping that. Theres no resisting constant daily change. We just need to learn to ride the wave better as a collective. I mean what other alertantive do we have really? I think the real question is do we celebrate the variant cultural aspects of our current society or do we homoginize to the "white bread" (for lack of a better term) eveness that makes the majority most comfortable?

[afro-elf]

I was watching the daily show and they showed a segment with Lou Dobbs who made a statement that he felt that St. Patrick's day shouldn't be celebrated. The point he was attempting to make if I recall the rest of the segment was that Americans needed to focus on being American not Hyphenated people.

Or as Whoppee Goldberg once said I went to Africa and let me tell you I'm American.

If you live here should you speak the the language? Should we have an offical second language?( Spanish)


Under the after the fall of the Soviet Union ethnic pride has divided countries and ripped them apart. As an aside note after being in (The) Ukraine a couple of times the ethnic tension there did not flare up as many thought it would.


Is one's loyalty to their in-group or the nation. Can both be reconsiled?


If someone not of your in-group wish to participate in your culture greatly due you embrace them or say off limits.

An example Yzedi do not allow conversions to their faith or intermarriage.

Just random thoughts.

[Khamûl]

But everybody's Irish on St. Patrick's Day!

On a serious note, I feel that you should be proud of your heritage, but not to the point where it separates you from the rest of the country. Be proud to have Irish roots, but remember that you're American. I'm a Southerner, and proud of it, but I'm an American first. In general, I'm against hyphenation. I can see it applying to new immigrants, but if you're born here, you're just an American, plain and simple, no matter what your roots are. As long as you're not being oppressed, your allegiance is to your country.

And if you're in America, speak English, or at least try to learn. When I went to France, did I immediately speak to people in English? No, I spoke in French (until we realized that their English was better than my French ), but at least I tried.


It's been a long day. I hope I'm making sense.

[EllethValatari]

Originally Posted by Khamûl

But everybody's Irish on St. Patrick's Day!

...and then there's the few who really are...too bad there's no difference, everyone just likes to wear green. I'm sure 99% of the people wearing green on that day have no idea who St. Patrick was...it's a disgrace to him and what he accomplished.

(sorry I just realized I quoted from 5 pages ago )

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by afro-elf

I was watching the daily show and they showed a segment with Lou Dobbs who made a statement that he felt that St. Patrick's day shouldn't be celebrated. The point he was attempting to make if I recall the rest of the segment was that Americans needed to focus on being American not Hyphenated people.

Lou Dobbs would have made more sense if he said because Irish people don't even celebrate St. Patrick's day.

I think multiculturalism enriches a country. It is definitely a benefit. 30 million Canadians aren't going to get together and say Yes, we're exactly the same. We should be proud to live in a country where you can say where your grandparents are from without being persecuted or shunned for it - and we haven't enjoyed this priviledge for very much of our history either!

I don't think there's anything wrong with being a "hyphenated" person either. If someone identifies themselves as Japanese-Canadian, then I don't see a problem.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Yurrr. Agrees with Nurvi. I really tend to consider heritage to be at least nearly as important as nationality. Now, if only "some of everything"s like me had heritage...

[Mercutio]

Someone my dad knows went somewhere in Africa for something (I know that sounds....so interesting), and noticed the following:

An African-American 20-something who was sight-seeing/touring the region on vacation obviously expected Africa to be just like "yo...the 'ood." (If you understand me). He expected American black culture to the nth degree, not true African culture--he thought they'd talk like he did back in the states, listen to rap/hip-hop, etc.


Edit: ^That must be the most mixed up thing I've ever written. And it's a complete non sequitur--doesn't even go with the thread. Sorry guys

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

Yurrr. Agrees with Nurvi. I really tend to consider heritage to be at least nearly as important as nationality. Now, if only "some of everything"s like me had heritage...

Hey, you have heritage! Millions of Canadians are some of everythings. I, for example, am: Canadian, French-Canadian, Irish, and British, with an Iroquois great-grandmother in my family tree somewhere.

That's some pretty typical Canadian heritage right there.

edit:

About Africa, it's an extremely diverse continent with thousands of different languages, and (I believe, but I can't find this information again) five large "groups" of people. Only one of these groups is represented in African-Americans. Another group are the Pygmies.

Within these groups, of course, are thousands of different nations of peoples. Well, it's da hood to someone at least!

[hectorberlioz]

just thought this should be read:

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/W...sity_adulation

[inked]

Here's an interesting bit that prompted me to re-locate this thread. Not all persons equally value multicultural diversity, especially in matters of religious sensibility.

http://religion.info/english/articles/article_354.shtml

Who's being the least sensitive here? Anyone oversensitive? Since the business in question has an equally offensive to all sort of nonchalance, is there any action they should take? What about international law implications? Copyright might be the answer, but I really don't know if one can do that in this case since the material hasn't been previously so restricted.

[brownjenkins]

There's nothing wrong with people reacting to it, but there is nothing wrong with continuing to let it exist either. American culture makes fun of Jesus in all sorts of ways 24/7, and I see it as a good way to break down entrenched beliefs over the generations.

[inked]

Apparently Egyptians build walls to keep people from Palestine out of Egypt! I am shocked, shocked, I tell you. From the mainstream media I thought it was only Israel ... what is Arab unity coming to? (Apparently no more than when the area was under the control of Egypt and Jordan, but that's history stuff).

http://www.charter.net/news/news_rea...555&feedid=249

RAFAH, Gaza Strip (AP) — Egyptian border guards wielding clubs and electric prods directed throngs of Palestinians as they crossed into Egypt for a second day Thursday, but made little attempt to block the flow from Gaza.

Still, Egyptian officials warned the Gazans' brief bliss of freedom, shopping and visiting relatives will soon come to an end with the resealing of the border.

For the second day in a row, scenes of frenzy, chaos and joy played out at the Gaza-Egypt border. Guards channeled crowds through a handful of openings, where Palestinians pushed, shouted, and jostled their way into Egypt, braving a gauntlet of cows, camels, fertilizer, food and truckloads of cement.

In what looked like a first step toward restoring a border, Egyptian security forces turned back Palestinians who attempted to travel deeper into Egypt — though they did nothing to stem the flow of Egyptian goods making their way to the frontier region to replenish rapidly depleting stocks. ...

cattle prods, too

Multiculturalism is just too much for some folks to handle, eh?

[The Gaffer]

As you know, you are comparing two different things. Palestine is actually part of Israel; the wall Israel built around Palestinian areas is an internal border. You will also know the pressure that has been put on Egypt to stop movement of arms into Palestine through its border.

I don't know why this would be seen as "anti" multiculturalism. Is it because you think that they are "all the same" therefore they should be supporting each other?

[Mari]

Here is something I found on the same subject:
CIA World Factbook, net immigration Compare the numbers in the US with that of the Netherlands, Belgium, the United Arab. Emirates, etc. and keep in mind the difference in size of the countries.
I'm not saying that the statistics from that man in the vid are wrong, just saying that they can be slightly misinterpreted. The same thing keeps happening here in the Netherlands everytime there is another group pleading to send all the people (who we begged to come here in the sixties to do our dirty work for us) back to their country of origin. A lot of statistics out there, each proving a different point, often contradicting and explainable in several ways, depending on the goal behind it.

Another view on the whole thing.

Originally Posted by http://ethnicharvest.org/mission/immigratnfacts.htm

Immigration has a modest but positive effect on the U.S. economy, according to American Demographics, adding about $10 billion a year to America's economic output. Even more important is the contribution immigrants and their children make just by being here to provide workers and leaders for the future. If today's immigration totals hold steady, it will account for about two-thirds of U.S. population growth over the next 50 years.

Presbyterian Fronter Fellowship has published an interesting list of Ethnic Groups in the USA with over 100,000 population (1996).

The Population Reference Bureau publishes articles analyzing data and trends from the 2000 USA Census.

For more U.S. population statistics (including free demographics for your state), see "Who Lives in Your State?".

The U.S. Census Bureau offers maps, tables and articles at its American FactFinder site.

(On the original page, there are quite a few links within the text, but it seems that you would have to go to the page itself for that)

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

The birth rate in the USA is still a little higher than in Europe, but that's part of the problem. People who want to retire, but have no extended family, count on society for their care.

[The Gaffer]

Same story in the UK: in fact, taken as a whole, immigrants contribute more per head to the economy, including taxation, than residents. Still, like everyone else we're not ones to let the facts get in the way of a little hysteria.

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

The birth rate in the USA is still a little higher than in Europe, but that's part of the problem. People who want to retire, but have no extended family, count on society for their care.

And quite right too. Having spent one's life working and paying tax, it is absolutely correct that the state should provide in later life.

[inked]

Multicultural or not?

http://billyockham.blogspot.com/2008...therlands.html

Yep. The youtube one that was pulled. Free speech and all!

[Mari]

Yeah, same here. But people aren't really riled up about that yet. Sure some people have to work longer, but the main issue is still the "foreigners" in our country. While they only constitute 8% I think of our population... These "foreigners" being specific groups, mostly Islamic people... multiculturalism, listening to eachother and learning from eachother is still far away in the heads of some people. And then there's this crazy politician who is anti-Islam, or so it seems. Sigh. Sorry, I'll stop before I get all riled up about it.

[BeardofPants]

World CIA factbook is a pretty reliable source, mari. Not much skewing going on - just the numbers. It's when you try and draw (oftentimes) spurious relationships, that you start getting in trouble. We (New Zealand Defence Force) often use the statistics provided through CIA factbook for our products.