The Nazgûl's Powers

[Attalus]

At Valandil's request, I will lead off with this question: what do you think that the Nazgûl could do? I mean, offensively, martially? My sig quote says what I think and why I believe it. JRRT goes on to say (in that Letter) that this is before Sauron added demonic power to the Witch-King, right before the Battle of the Pellenor Fields, which explains why he was able to shatter Éowyn's shield and break her arm. Before that, the Nazgûl seem rather ineffective. At Weathertop, Gandalf and then Aragorn are able to drive them off single-handedly, Aragorn with the feeble help of the Hobbits. They were able to scatter the Dunedain at Sarn Ford, but I suspect that they bolted because Aragorn was not there, in very fear, and a running or cowering man is an easy target for a backstab. All they could do to poor Frodo is stab him with a knife, when surely nine beings like the Witch-King in the Pellenor would have just killed them all and taken Frodo with them. And what about the Prancing Pony? Why didn't they just storm the place and take it? True, Aragorn was there, but he was only one man and they didn't know that, anyway. Think of the burlesque recorded in "The Hunt for the Ring" with the Nazgûl, including the W-K, blundering abou the countryside, looking for the Shire. Even then, the best they could do is terrify the Southron spy and Wormtongue. Saruman made fools of them. Well, there is the gauntlet.

[Fat middle]

I believe that the Nazgul had a little problem with sight. I think I've read it in Letters too (EDIT: Nope, it doesn't seem to be in Letters. Perhaps it was just Gandalf in Rivendell): they cannot see the world like we see it, because they're in the other world, the world of the wraiths and the spirits. In the night, however, their vision was better.

This problem may have been important in their fights with Gandalf and Aragorn.

Then, they seem very weak... but for the fear they inspired. The question is, how can they inspire such a terrible fear, even to the point of "coming over one" in the "form" of the Black Breath? Wearing black clothes, speaking in hissings, etc. do not seem a sufficient response.

I've been thinking about this, and the only explanation I can find is related with the reasons that Tolkien gave (I believe they're in the same Letter. EDIT: ) to explain how could Glorfindel stand them and the words of Gandalf (?) about it:

When you met a Black Rider you may be frightened by his external aspect, but at the same time, your spirit is confronting his. Men and hobbit may not be conscious of this confrontation, but elves are (at least those who had lived in the Blessed Realm, and I suppose that all them, though in a minor degree).

The presence of the wraith in the other world is very powerful, and perhaps it could result in a sort of extenuation of your spirit, aka Black Breath.

Hmmm, I think I'll look for some quotes before I say more nonsense

[Artanis]

Originally Posted by Fat middle

Then, they seem very weak... but for the fear they inspired. The question is, how can they inspire such a terrible fear, even to the point of "coming over one" in the "form" of the Black Breath? Wearing black clothes, speaking in hissings, etc. do not seem a sufficient response.

When reading this I came to think about the Oathbreakers. The fear which they arose resembles the fear people felt of the Nazgûl. Now that's something to ponder about.

Edit: The Nazgûl had a few phobias too, they feared both water and fire. Actually, at the Ford of Bruinen, they were caught in the middle of two evils: The river, and Glorfindel and Aragorn with burning torches:

At the Ford of Bruinen only the Witch-king and two others, with the lure of the Ring straight before them, had dared to enter the river; the others were driven into it by Glorfindel and Aragorn. [Author's note.]

UT, The hunt for the Ring, Note 3.

[Fat middle]

Originally Posted by Artanis

When reading this I came to think about the Oathbreakers. The fear which they arose resembles the fear people felt of the Nazgûl. Now that's something to ponder about.

Yep. Very interesting compassion

Here's the quote I was refering to. It's from Many Meetings. gandalf speaking of the elves from Rivendell:

They do not fear the Ringwraiths, for those who have dwelt in the Blessed Realm live at once in both worlds, and against both the Seen and the Unseen they have great power.

It's also curious what Frodo says a bit above:

`Then why do these black horses endure such riders? All other animals are terrified when they draw near, even the elf-horse of Glorfindel. The dogs howl and the geese scream at them.'

Also to be pondered. Has the animals some sort of life in the "other world" to sense the presence of the wraiths?

[Artanis]

Originally Posted by Fat middle

It's also curious what Frodo says a bit above:
Also to be pondered. Has the animals some sort of life in the "other world" to sense the presence of the wraiths?

Didn't Gandalf answer that question promptly? "Because these horses are born and bred to the service of the Dark Lord in Mordor." Not a wholly satisfactory answer perhaps.

[Ñólendil]

I think what Fat Middle is getting at is not the answer to Frodo's question, but the validity to Frodo's comments. That is, Fat Middle doesn't want to know why the horses bear the Nazgul, he wants to know why or how it is that the animals (at least common dogs and geese) howl and scream at them.

[The Gaffer]

Interesting discussion. Here's my two taters worth.

I recall Gandalf mentioning that when Frodo put on the Ring he became visible to them and they might have seized him. The purpose of the knife attack was to turn Frodo into a wraith, presumably to facilitate this.

This led me to the conclusion that the Ringwraiths existed almost entirely in the "other world" and had very little power to physically affect the real world. However, clearly they can wear clothes and have shape of some sort, and perhaps we can assume that this includes the ability to wield weapons.

So why didn't they just kill Frodo and take the Ring? Perhaps being the Ring-bearer gave him some sort of protection; maybe they couldn't actually handle the Ring and needed to take Frodo in wraith-form back to Sauron.

Elsewhere in LOTR there was reference to their increasing in power as Sauron increased in power, which might explain some things.

[Halbarad of the Dunedain]

I recall Gandalf mentioning that when Frodo put on the Ring he became visible to them and they might have seized him. The purpose of the knife attack was to turn Frodo into a wraith, presumably to facilitate this.

It is my oppinion that on Weathertop there were only 5 wraiths that were being driven back by 4 little Hobbits and a Man. I think their plan was to do what they could, stab Frodo and hope that he would turn in to a wraith quickly. Yet even if it was a slow proccess they could now perceive Frodo much better, their plan may have been to gain the ability to track Frodo and wait for all nine to attack a weakend group of 3 little Hobbits a Man and a hlaf wraith Hobbit. I think the odds would have been a bit different and Frodo would have been lost.

Originally Posted by Artanis

Didn't Gandalf answer that question promptly? "Because these horses are born and bred to the service of the Dark Lord in Mordor." Not a wholly satisfactory answer perhaps.

(I know this is kind of off topic but it was just buggin me ya know)
Anyways, isn't it said that no horse is breed and born in Mordor!? If I remember correctly didn't a force of Mordor raid the Rohan and take every black horse!? Im pretty sure I just read something like that in The Two Towers. Something like there was not a single black horse left in rohan...?
and again sorry bout the off topicness, i shall post again regaurding the nazgul as i think i have a lot to say about them...

[Valandil]

Thanks for posting this Attalus. I should take the time to do some directed study before attempting a contrarian's reply. Interesting what you say about Sauron adding the demonic power at the one point. I have read the 'Letters' but only once. I'll start my study with that one and re-check some portions of the text and appendices.

Thanks again. May take me a few days, as we have a tough deadline at work - and I'm putting in overtime as well as my lengthy commute (and then there's that wife and three boys I go home to...).

[squinteyedsoutherner]

I don’t at all agree the Nazgul were “driven off” by Aragorn and the hobbits on Weathertop.

Their plan was to approach, command the ring bearer to show himself, stab him, then depart. At this point Frodo would have willingly gone with them. Tolkien tells us through Aragorn that they did not expect to be resisted, but this is a reference to Frodo’s resistance (“More deadly to him was the name of Elbereth”) not anything anyone else did.

The only flaw in their plan was underestimating the ring bearer which will become a theme throughout the book.

“they are only waiting because they think their purpose is almost accomplished and that the ring cannot fly much further. I fear, Sam, that they believe your master has a deadly wound that will subdue him to their will”

Even after the attack Tolkien is trying to show that what will save them is a second underestimation of Frodo, this time his ability to withstand the wound. The Nazgul could have got the ring at this point in the story had it not been for these underestimations of Frodo. Aragorn played no role in the initial stroke missing Frodo’s heart, and the fact he was unable to stop that attack when he was so near to Frodo certainly means he would be unable to stop another attempt. The Nazgul however, deem a second attempt unecessary.

I think this was intentional on Tolkien’s part for thematic reasons. They did not lack “the power” to take the ring, rather, they lacked the understanding that strength can reside in what appears weak.

[ItalianLegolas]

i think early in LoTR there is a brief mention of 'Black Breath' which is that they could kill/stun a person just by breathing on them

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

I think it's a little more complex than that, if it weren't then the orcs would have constantly suffered with it. It wouldn't really immediatly kill them either. Faramir suffered with it and that with a Southron dart only bought him near death after about a day.

[Attalus]

I suspect that the Black Breath was a kind of poisonous effusion that affected a mortal that was actually fighting with one of them, which is why the Orcs were not said to be affected. Merry was not touched by it, that night in Bree. I think he passed out from pure terror, though this is not mentioned.

[Blackheart]

Black Breath was is a descriptive phase, not an actual indication that the breath of the nazgul was deadly in and of itself... Though if they did breathe it probably smelled pretty nasty...

Any living thing was affected by their presence.. orcs to. At the very least it gave them the willies...

It was more of a spiritual affliction than anything physical. A direct assault on the spirit.