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#1 |
The Insufferable
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,333
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Balrog Parts
How come, in the movie and most other representations I've seen, the balrog has horns? I mean, if I was a Maian spirit and a being of Fire and Power, I could do a bit better than Rams horn.
Another common idea that's just taken hold, you think?
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Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned |
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#2 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
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Probably just John Howe's animalic interpretation. In all his Balrog-illustrations you can see a very physical dark-skinned creature with large wings, fiery whips and nostril spouts -- and horns. Other artists have it too, you're right. Maybe it's because of it's demonic associations; people think of a devil.
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Falmon -- Dylan |
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#3 |
The Insufferable
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,333
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I suppose.
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Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned |
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#4 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 47
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There is no answer to any of these questions about Balrog parts IMHO because I'm sure that the Balrog was meant to be mysterious and difficult to make out. It's an "ancient evil from an earlier age" and a terrible secret awoken by the dwarves. It's something horrible and hidden, sheathed in fire, not some bug-eyed ugly monster.
Supposing the Balrog can grow body parts at will? It grows wings when it needs to fly or something? Whether or not it did have wings, they didn't do it much good when it fell down the chasm. |
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#5 |
Sapling
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 1
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Personally, I thought that the balrog was wolf-like and fiery and stuff in the movie he really just looked like a devil.
I guess that Moria could be orcish for hell? nah. |
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#6 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
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Welcome mike! 'Mória' is Grey-elven for 'Black Pit', which is close enough.
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Falmon -- Dylan |
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#7 |
Elven Loremaster
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 892
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I suppose one could always ask him why his Balrogs have horns, but John Howe loves medieval motifs and his Middle-earth almost always looks like medieval Europe. And medieval artwork made extensive use of horns on depictions of Satan, as horns were a Biblical symbol of authority. I think Howe's Balrog is intended to reflect his medieval preferences. I don't suppose he has ever explained the horns, but that is my guess on why he prefers them.
In the movie, they appear to have attempted a compromise on the Balrog wings. As best I could determine, after only two viewings (so far -- I will see it again), the wings are not there to begin with, but they do appear briefly as the Balrog approaches the bridge and its flame and smoke (I guess that was the best they could do for "shadow stuff") billow out. The wings have a very shadowy appearance, in my opinion, and whatever else people may think of the Balrog, I think the wings were about as well done as one could hope for -- although it would have been nice to see them stretch from wall to wall. The book, obviously, can afford to wallow in moments of time, drawing them out with splendid descriptions. The movie had to get on with the story, and like Tolkien said of the book, the chief flaw of the movie is that it is too short. |
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#8 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bree
Posts: 148
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couldn't agree more Michael.
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#9 |
Halfwitted
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Eryn Vorn
Posts: 1,659
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I can't say I ever pictured the Balrog with horns. The whole description in the book is extremely vague; it's just described as a "man-shape." I always pictured it as a huge humanoid figure with so much shadow and fire around it that you couldn't make out anything for certain. But I though the way it looked in the movie was very good, especially the whip. The shadow wings were nice too, although I'm pretty sure they're not real wings, just shadows that look like them.
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#10 |
The Insufferable
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,333
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At first, I pictured the balrog as a shadow-within-shadow
Sort of like a black humanoid, surrounded by lesser darkness. And then... When i realized it was supposed to be a demon of fire... I changed that picture. I still think it was more of a Dark and Flame creature than the Crusty Lava Monster that the movie Balrog seemed to be.
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Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned |
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#11 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Lothlorien (actually Wales, but let's not talk about that)
Posts: 117
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![]() I reckon SOME Balrogs had wings. I read at www.myprecious.co.uk that the Balrog which Glorfindel fought had real wings, while Gandalf's Balrog only had shadows that took the form of wings. But if Balrogs have wings, y don't they fly 2 safety after they fall off underground bridges/mountain tops/tower tops (since that's how most of them die). If i was a Balrog i'd probably fly away rather than just fall.
And what if the firey whips they had got tangled up in their wings?!?!?! They wouldn't be able 2 fly anywhere then! I reckon giving a Balrog something that could tangle up his wings is a pretty stupid idea ![]()
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'So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you can decide is what to do with the time that is given to you,' - Gandalf the Grey 'I left my body to science, but I'm afraid they've turned it down' - In memory of Graham Chapman 'Rubin sits like Buddah in a 10 foot cell, An innocent man in a living hell,' - From 'Hurricane' by Bob Dylan, the only innocent Hurricane protest song, written stressing the innocence of Rubin 'Hurricane' Carter, a black, middle-weight boxer imprisoned for 19 for a triple murder which he did not commit. |
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#12 | |
Elven Loremaster
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 892
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Quote:
In fact, it did, and they were not metaphorical, and they were not ambiguous, and it's a shame so many people have been deceived by such a dishonest site. I asked them twice to revise their erroneous statements about the pro-wing arguments and they refused. The Encyclopedia of Arda also misrepresents other matters in Middle-earth. It brings about as much value to Tolkien readers as a David Day book. I suggest you read this explanation of the Balrog Wings controversy which I wrote. Some people have accused me of bias, so I'll acknowledge the accusations up front. But the only bias I have is one for truth, not for promoting preconceived notions as if they were fact. http://www.xenite.org/tolkien/do-bal...ave-wings.html |
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#13 |
'Sober' Mullet Frosh
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Queen's
Posts: 1,245
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THe FELLOWSHIP HAS WINGS
Thus Gandalf says "Fly you fools" If they didn't have wings-they couldn't fly! ![]()
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"Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom" |
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#14 | |
The Insufferable
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,333
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Quote:
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Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned |
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#15 | |
Elven Loremaster
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 892
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Quote:
Not that Gandalfs remark has ever had anything to do with the fact that Balrogs have wings, but obviously people like to go off on tangents when they get bored with the wings debate. ![]()
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http://www.xenite.org/faqs/lotr_movie/ http://www.michael-martinez.com/ http://www.merp.com/essays/MichaelMartinez/ Last edited by Michael Martinez : 02-02-2002 at 03:50 PM. |
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#16 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Uk
Posts: 447
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I agree with what Wayfarer beleived Balrogs to look like
because, ive seen one of Tolkiens original drawings, in which there is a general man type shape, which is all blacked out, kinda like its got a black sheet over it, this is then engulfed in flames, and all u can see are some red-eyes no horns - no wings, - no bull - no devil, more like a ghostly-shadow on fire |
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#17 |
Best Ex-Administrator ever
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Ireland
Posts: 60,547
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Aldesign, do you really think that such a big piece of evidence would go unnoticed with such a debated issue within a large community?. Anyway, your description of this picture is exactly like the one John Howe or Alan Lee drew for the movie.
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#18 |
Elven Loremaster
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 892
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Tolkien never drew any Balrogs.
John Howe's Balrog has wings. I don't recall if Alan Lee ever drew a Balrog. |
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#19 |
Enting
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: 2 blocks from Minas Tirith
Posts: 59
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I thought the movie Balrog,looked identical to Blizzard entertainment's, Diablo. I'm sure there version is from an older adaption of the Demon.But seeing them both,you can't help but notice the extreme simularities.
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#20 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Dorset
Posts: 608
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![]() I didn't 'like' the Balrog, but it was alright. It was a nice moment when Gandalf and the Balrog were on the bridge and you could see for a split second one of John Howe's well-known paintings. That was a nice touch.
How do I do the Avatar thing???[IMG]I:\saur1.jpg[/IMG] Last edited by Agburanar : 02-05-2002 at 08:20 AM. |
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