In what order were the people of the House of FinwÃ« born?

Peter_20 · 03-05-2007, 08:41 AM

I've always wondered in what order the people of the House of FinwÃ« were born.
I know for sure than FÃ«anor was FinwÃ«'s first child, but what about everyone else?
Was MÃ*riel older than Indis?
Was Fingon born before Maedhros?

I've heard than Turgon and Finrod were born the same year, so naturally Finrod should be older than Aredhel, etc.
Do you have any more details on this?

I've also heard about rather anonymous characters like Findis and Argon.

The Telcontarion · 03-05-2007, 12:14 PM

Well the sil did tell us that Feanor married young and had all his children when he was still very young. Not only I had always thought that Maedhros was older than Fingon, but older than Fingolfin as well. Feanor was married before fingolfin was born.

Peter_20 · 03-05-2007, 12:29 PM

I'm kinda dubious on whether Maedhros is older or not, because in one chapter Tolkien mentions the different kings and rulers in Middle-earth in a certain order:
he claims Fingolfin to be the oldest and Finrod to be the youngest, and then he lists the characters in this order: Fingolfin - Fingon - Maedhros - Finrod.

I take it that means Fingon is older than Maedhros.
Maedhros also states himself than Fingolfin is older than him - "the kingship should rightly come to you (Fingolfin), the oldest here of the sons of FinwÃ«", etc.

Right now I believe in this order, based on the family tree in The Silmarillion:

FÃ«anor
Fingolfin
Finarfin
Fingon
Maedhros
Maglor
Turgon / Finrod
Celegorm
Caranthir
Curufin
Amrod / Amras
Orodreth
Angrod
Aegnor
Aredhel / Galadriel

I don't really know why, but it feels right.

Keith K · 05-31-2007, 12:15 AM

I think it very possible, even likely, that all of Feanor's sons predated the birth of Fingolfin.

My take on your example is that Maedhros was speaking of the three sons of Finwe only. (Feanor, Fingolfin, and Finarfin).

Peter_20 · 06-01-2007, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith K

I think it very possible, even likely, that all of Feanor's sons predated the birth of Fingolfin.

My take on your example is that Maedhros was speaking of the three sons of Finwe only. (Feanor, Fingolfin, and Finarfin).

I don't think so, because in the chapter "Of Beleriand And Its Realms" the ruling kings of Beleriand are listed like this:

"Finrod was the youngest of the ruling kings: Fingolfin, Fingon, Maedhros and Finrod Felagund."

Dunno if this order has any real importance, but it seems to me that Fingolfin is stated as the oldest, and then it descends all the way to Finrod.

Willow Oran · 06-18-2007, 01:46 AM

I wouldn't place so much importance on the order in which they are listed there. That sentence could be easily reworded as:

The ruling kings were Fingolfin, Fingon, Maedhros, and Finrod, who was the youngest.

Finrod being the youngest doesn't tell us how old the others are in relation to anyone except him. It is likely that Fingolfin and Fingon are listed together before Maedhros because they were father and son and because they were the two who held the high kingship.

One should also take into account that the quenya name for Maedhros is Nelyafinwe, meaning 'Third-Finwe' which places him definitely before Fingon, and possibly, but not certainly before Fingolfin.

03-05-2007, 08:41 AM	#1
Peter_20 Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 104	In what order were the people of the House of FinwÃ« born? I've always wondered in what order the people of the House of FinwÃ« were born. I know for sure than FÃ«anor was FinwÃ«'s first child, but what about everyone else? Was MÃ*riel older than Indis? Was Fingon born before Maedhros? I've heard than Turgon and Finrod were born the same year, so naturally Finrod should be older than Aredhel, etc. Do you have any more details on this? I've also heard about rather anonymous characters like Findis and Argon.

03-05-2007, 12:14 PM	#2
The Telcontarion The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: By the shores of cuivinien Posts: 694	Well the sil did tell us that Feanor married young and had all his children when he was still very young. Not only I had always thought that Maedhros was older than Fingon, but older than Fingolfin as well. Feanor was married before fingolfin was born. __________________ Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

03-05-2007, 12:29 PM	#3
Peter_20 Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 104	I'm kinda dubious on whether Maedhros is older or not, because in one chapter Tolkien mentions the different kings and rulers in Middle-earth in a certain order: he claims Fingolfin to be the oldest and Finrod to be the youngest, and then he lists the characters in this order: Fingolfin - Fingon - Maedhros - Finrod. I take it that means Fingon is older than Maedhros. Maedhros also states himself than Fingolfin is older than him - "the kingship should rightly come to you (Fingolfin), the oldest here of the sons of FinwÃ«", etc. Right now I believe in this order, based on the family tree in The Silmarillion: FÃ«anor Fingolfin Finarfin Fingon Maedhros Maglor Turgon / Finrod Celegorm Caranthir Curufin Amrod / Amras Orodreth Angrod Aegnor Aredhel / Galadriel I don't really know why, but it feels right. Last edited by Peter_20 : 06-01-2007 at 01:07 AM.

06-18-2007, 01:46 AM	#6
Willow Oran Deus Ex Machina Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,951	I wouldn't place so much importance on the order in which they are listed there. That sentence could be easily reworded as: The ruling kings were Fingolfin, Fingon, Maedhros, and Finrod, who was the youngest. Finrod being the youngest doesn't tell us how old the others are in relation to anyone except him. It is likely that Fingolfin and Fingon are listed together before Maedhros because they were father and son and because they were the two who held the high kingship. One should also take into account that the quenya name for Maedhros is Nelyafinwe, meaning 'Third-Finwe' which places him definitely before Fingon, and possibly, but not certainly before Fingolfin. __________________ "5. Plain Rings with RUNES on the inside. Avoid these like the PLAGUE. -Diana Wynne Jones Tough Guide To FantasyLand ...it's not much of a show if somebody doesn't suffer, and preferably at length. Suffering is beautiful in any case, and so is anguish; but as for loathing, and bitterness... I don't think they belong on the stage at all. - Isabella, I Gelosi Last edited by Willow Oran : 06-18-2007 at 01:51 AM.

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05-31-2007, 12:15 AM	#4
Keith K Elf Lord Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: charlotte, n.c. Posts: 1,081	I think it very possible, even likely, that all of Feanor's sons predated the birth of Fingolfin. My take on your example is that Maedhros was speaking of the three sons of Finwe only. (Feanor, Fingolfin, and Finarfin).