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11-14-2006, 10:44 PM | #1 |
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How many times had Gandalf been to Moria?
I was thinking about this... how when the Fellowship is considering which way to take after turning back from the Dimrill Stair.
I had THOUGHT that both Gandalf and Aragorn say they had only been there once before. When we look closely at what they actually say though - it's clear that Aragorn has only been there once, but with Gandalf it's open ended. Gandalf: "... Yet it will not be the first time that I have been to Moria. I sought there long ago for Thrain son of Thror after he was lost. I passed through, and I came out again alive." Aragorn: "I too once passed the Dimrill Gate, but though I came out again, the memory is very evil. I do not wish to enter Moria a second time." The reason I wonder is this: Gandald and the other Istari came to Middle Earth around 1000 of the Third Age. Moria was still occupied by Dwarves then - Durin's folk dwelt there until 1981. Did Gandalf never enter Moria for the entire first millenium he was in Middle Earth? And if not, why not? Did the Dwarves not care for visitors? Did he not particularly notice them as long as they were holed up there and not wandering about? Did he just prefer Elves (and a little bit Men, and later Hobbits?)? Or - perhaps he just saw no need to mention earlier visits there in more pleasant times - since his words sort of "danced around it" and just spoke of the last time he had been there? Perhaps he was speaking only of post-1981 visits? Thoughts?
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11-15-2006, 12:07 AM | #2 |
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Ve-ry interesting observation there. I wonder...
I've got it! He was really involved in a top-secret mithril-smuggling ring, and didn't want to tip anyone off that he had been involved. But he's an Istar, so he probably doesn't lie very regularly...so he tricked everyone into thinking he'd never been there before, when in reality he HAD!
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11-15-2006, 12:11 AM | #3 | |
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He'd no longer be a "made man."
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11-15-2006, 12:17 AM | #4 | |
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I beleave he said something about visiting in happier times... I could be wrong...
It is perfectly plauseable that Gandalf did visit Moria in all that time, also it is perfectly plauseable that he didn't. I lived near appleton for a few years and didn't visit anything to do with Harry Hudenni (HELP MY SPELLING!) and Gandalf was a wizard! He lives alot longer and tends to be busier than men... And women... But I'd think he did visit moria a few times, why not? P.S. I never thought I'd ask a mod this, but is this the right forum for this?
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11-15-2006, 12:29 AM | #5 |
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LOL!
Well, he sure knew an awful lot about it for only being there once (or even twice)!
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11-15-2006, 07:01 AM | #6 |
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Gandalf may have visited Khazad-dum a few times. But I reckon when Khazad-dum was taken over by the Balrog and named Moria he only went there once, like he said, to look for Thrain.
No doubt, during the better days, there would be parts of the mines 'closed to the public' so to speak, where only Dwarves were allowed. And when the Dwarves were still around the mines probably changed significantly in between his visits. The road he knew through the mines at first may have been changed by the next time he visited. So that one time Gandalf went through Moria after the Dwarves fled may have been the only experience he had to rely on safely to guide the Fellowship through the mines.
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11-15-2006, 07:48 AM | #7 | |
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11-15-2006, 09:41 AM | #8 | |
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I’m with troll’s bane on this one: Gandalf was quite familiar with Moria, far more than might be accounted by a single visit to a ruined city. He knew in what halls he must be, and unless there were lots of maps lying about in Rivendell that he could consult, his remarks in FotR, “Bridge of Khazad-dum”, indicate a fairly thorough knowledge of the city and its geometry:
Quote:
I think he had been there before, probably with the same kind of frequency that he visited Gondor or the Shire in those days. (I think his visits to the Shire probably became more frequent after the fall of Arthedain as the Third Age wore on.) |
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11-15-2006, 07:45 AM | #9 | |
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(EDIT: and I'd be just as happy if we move it to LOTR books - SGH - whatever you think )
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