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04-12-2002, 04:02 PM | #1 |
Elf Lord
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The shape of middle Earth
Does anyone know if Tolkien specified what shape Middle Earth was?
I know its Earth and so therefore would lead you to thinkit is sphere shaped but this a place filled with hobbits and intelligent rings. I always imagined it being flat. I dont know why, i just did. Anyone know for certain? Or what did you imagine it as?
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04-12-2002, 04:13 PM | #2 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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I always thought it was flat in the beginning. But I think it was made round after the fall of Numenor. I seem to remember I'ce read somewhere that after the fall of Numenor men could sail of west and not finding Valinor they kept on sailing until they got home again by a detour. Or something like that. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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04-12-2002, 04:47 PM | #3 |
Slacker
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I've always pictured is as being round just like our Earth. I don't guess I think of a flat Earth rotating so the sun can come up and go down. And Eärniel, I haven't read about where Middle Earth was flat before the fall of Numenor. Then again, I haven't read about the fall of Numenor either.
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04-12-2002, 04:58 PM | #4 |
Best Ex-Administrator ever
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Middle-Earth is not the entire planet, it's a continent on Arda, which is the 'earth'.
Middle-Earth is Europe thousands of years ago, making the events in the Lord of the Rings a 'history'. This is also in the wrong forum. |
04-12-2002, 05:13 PM | #5 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
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Check out Nordic Cosmology. JRRT was into Beowulf and the Eddas. Middle Earth is the English translation of Midgard.
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cya |
04-12-2002, 05:41 PM | #6 |
Long lost mooter
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I think Earniel is right. I read somewhere that Arda was originally flat and then became round.
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04-12-2002, 05:44 PM | #7 | |
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Quote:
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04-12-2002, 09:39 PM | #8 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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The world (Arda) was flat until the "Downfall of Numenor" when it was changed.
From the Silmarillion: "Thus in after days, what by the voyage of ships, what by lore and star-craft, the kings of Men knew that the world was indeed made round, and yet the Eldar were permitted still to depart and to come to the Ancient West and to Avallone if they would. Therefore the loremasters of Men said that a straight road must still be for those that were permitted to find it. And they taught that, while the new world fell away, the old road and the path of the memory of the West still went on as it were a mighty bridge invisible that passed through the air of breath and of flight (which were bent now as the world was bent), and traversed Ilmen which flesh unaided cannot endure, until it came to Tol Eressea, the Lonely Isle, and maybe even beyond to Valinor, where the Valar still dwell, and watch the unfolding of the story of the world." |
04-12-2002, 10:11 PM | #9 | |||||||
Elven Loremaster
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Posts: 892
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From Letter #151:
Quote:
From Letter #154: Quote:
From Letter #165: Quote:
From Letter 169: Quote:
From Letter #184: Quote:
From Letter #211: [quote]May I say all this is 'mythical', and not any kind of new religion or vision. As far as I know it is merely an imaginative invention, to express, in the only way I can, some of my (dim) apprehensions of the world. All I can say is that, if it were 'history', it would be difficult to fit the lands and events (or 'cultures') into such evidence as we possess, archaeological or geological, concerning the nearer or remoter part of what is now called Europe; though the Shire, for instance, is expressly stated to have been in this region (I p. 12). I could have fitted things in with greater versimilitude, if the story had not become too far developed, before the question ever occurred to me. I doubt if there would have been much gain; and I hope the, evidently long but undefined, gap in time between the Fall of Barad-dur and our Days is sufficient for 'literary credibility', even for readers acquainted with what is known or surmised of 'pre-history'. Quote:
From Letter #325: Quote:
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04-18-2002, 04:09 AM | #10 |
Elf Lord
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I think it's free to imagination, however I got the impression it was flat at first, then was made round when the world was reformed. Thus the 'straight way' into the west left the surface of Arda completely.
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06-15-2002, 05:27 AM | #11 |
The Rogue Elf
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When Aman was separated from the world it is quoted, "when the world was made round". So obviously from that, it started out as a flat world. And as I'm sure a good deal of people know, this would not pose a problem for the sun and moon because they both hung in the sky like this: http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo...sunandmoon.jpg
Also, Arien steered the sun across the sky each day while by night Tilion did the same with the moon. Therefore, the world could have been flat and was. It was only then made round when Aman was taken off of the natural ground of Arda and placed above it. |
06-15-2002, 10:47 AM | #12 |
Elven Loremaster
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Yes. The mythology calls for a transition from a flat world to a round world.
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06-15-2002, 02:10 PM | #13 |
Elf Lord
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'Course in the "newest" mythology the Earth was always round.
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