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06-17-2009, 04:34 PM | #1 |
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The Singers Thread
This thread is for all of the singers out there! Any style, any talent level!
Although the discussions may be heavily technique centered at times, feel free to jump in with any conversation related to singing whether it's a question, a suggestion on a singer you really like, or even just to let us know you got the big solo at church. Last edited by Tessar : 06-22-2009 at 03:41 PM. |
06-17-2009, 04:43 PM | #2 |
Lady of Andúnië
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Oh, yay!!!
We can't possibly be the only ones here who sing?? Come on out of hiding, fellow songbirds!
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" ...But the Exiles on the shores of the sea, if they turned towards the West in the desire of their hearts, spoke of Mar-nu-Falmar that was whelmed in the waves, Akallabêth the Downfallen, Atalantë in the Eldarin tongue." "Ye who believe in affection that hopes, and endures, and is patient, Ye who believe in the beauty and strength of woman's devotion, List to the mournful tradition still sung by the pines of the forest ... " ~ Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Evangeline |
06-17-2009, 04:54 PM | #3 | |
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I'm working on the whole "Gallantry" opera, which is interesting to say the least! Then I'm also doing the first two duets plus the recit. from Marriage of Figaro, and I'm doing the quintet from Magic Flute... So no real 'arias' as such. I'm doing the Policeman's Song from Pirates of Pinzance, getting that into shape for the production in the Fall. Now that my voice is so much better placed I may have to look at some actual arias. I'll probably look at the catalogue aria from Don Giovann (which this is a good recording of). It's kind of a 'big boy' aria though, so it might be too much for me at this point. I may also try to dust off Non Piu Andrai and Se Vuol Ballare from Marriage of Figaro to see what I can do with them now. I tell you what, this afternoon I pulled out all of my songs from last semester and sang through them... it was AMAZING. Everything I'd struggled with was gone, so long as I kept the nice high placement. During my lesson my voice teacher had me flip back and forth between the new placement and the old one a few times, then on the last time (after I'd done the bad placement) he said: "Okay, so now you will never, ever sing like that again, right? Go forth, and sing the GOOD way." Last edited by Tessar : 06-17-2009 at 05:43 PM. |
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06-17-2009, 05:31 PM | #4 | |||||
Lady of Andúnië
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Right now my tried-and-true audition aria is Ach, ich fühl's (Pamina's aria from The Magic Flute). Bb's all over the place, and people like it in my voice, so it's my old reliable. Did you get the role of Papageno, btw? Quote:
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One of the 'bugs' i'm working through right now is, despite still being a light soprano voice, i am now past 30, when the voice finally "matures" (at least part of me is, right? ). This adds 'warmth' to the voice and good things like that, but it also creates more of the tendency to bring 'weight' from the bottom range (chest range) up into the top (headvoice). Not good!! Especially as a high soprano. I've had to work endlessly on keeping my own placement nice and light and high through the transition.
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" ...But the Exiles on the shores of the sea, if they turned towards the West in the desire of their hearts, spoke of Mar-nu-Falmar that was whelmed in the waves, Akallabêth the Downfallen, Atalantë in the Eldarin tongue." "Ye who believe in affection that hopes, and endures, and is patient, Ye who believe in the beauty and strength of woman's devotion, List to the mournful tradition still sung by the pines of the forest ... " ~ Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Evangeline |
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06-17-2009, 04:55 PM | #5 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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The world is better off with me not singing but...
No problem from my part, but maybe Entertainment is better? Your call.
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06-18-2009, 12:40 AM | #6 | |
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Have you ever sung the Laudate Dominum? That sounds like it would probably fit beautifully into your vocal range . The new placement is really making my low notes pop out too! I discovered that quite to my surprise tonight during choir. I really think my voice is in the right placement now, because I sang all during my voice lesson, I sang ALL DAY after that because it was such a weird, amazing feeling to be able to sing that way, and then I sang for the entire choir rehearsal and never lost a note of my range... my throat feel absolutely fine, although at the end of choir I could tell my voice was getting a little worn out but nothing too serious. I'm still paranoid that I may not end up developing into a professional quality singer as far as the 'instrument' goes, but I'm grateful to be able to sing with so much freedom now if nothing else . Last edited by Tessar : 06-18-2009 at 12:43 AM. |
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06-18-2009, 03:24 AM | #7 | |||||
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" ...But the Exiles on the shores of the sea, if they turned towards the West in the desire of their hearts, spoke of Mar-nu-Falmar that was whelmed in the waves, Akallabêth the Downfallen, Atalantë in the Eldarin tongue." "Ye who believe in affection that hopes, and endures, and is patient, Ye who believe in the beauty and strength of woman's devotion, List to the mournful tradition still sung by the pines of the forest ... " ~ Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Evangeline Last edited by Voronwen : 06-18-2009 at 03:26 AM. |
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06-19-2009, 01:15 PM | #8 |
Lady of Andúnië
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On belting and "crossover"
Continuing my thoughts here so we don't clog up the Classical Music thread with more singers' chatter...
Opening a can of musical worms... Of course, it's a whole debate in itself as to whether classical singers should "cross over" into other styles of singing. Some say it damages the delicate balance of the training of the muscles used for singing, causing placement issues (a sound that's placed too far forward, ie. 'in the nose'), tension (an overly tight sound production), and registration problems (issues with imbalance in the passagio between the head and chest registers), which is probably what we're hearing going on with Chenoweth I usually err on the side of caution, personally. But i do have to qualify that by admitting that an occasional session of just forgetting all the pickier aspects of classical technique and just belting along with Loreena McKennitt or something (which is arguably not a belting style, but i can't truly belt so for me it is ) usually imparts a certain freedom of production when i go back and practice 'for real'. Perhaps that's just a matter of being able to let go a bit and not 'think too much' about technique, which is something we all have to do at a certain point, myself especially as i tend to be one of those picky perfectionists. How do you feel about it, Tessar? Anyone else?
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" ...But the Exiles on the shores of the sea, if they turned towards the West in the desire of their hearts, spoke of Mar-nu-Falmar that was whelmed in the waves, Akallabêth the Downfallen, Atalantë in the Eldarin tongue." "Ye who believe in affection that hopes, and endures, and is patient, Ye who believe in the beauty and strength of woman's devotion, List to the mournful tradition still sung by the pines of the forest ... " ~ Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Evangeline |
06-19-2009, 03:45 PM | #9 | ||
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When I hear her, I don't detect any tension in the voice or and kind of imbalance whatsoever. Here's part of my reasoning: How could she possibly sing those whistle notes the way she does if her voice were unbalanced? If she were messing up her registration she would have to disconnect from her head voice to sing them, and then she wouldn't be able to sing up into them the way she does. Kelly Clarkson is a good example of someone who has broken her registers apart. From what I've heard her sing recently it sounds like the only way she can continuously ascend now is to just pull chest higher and higher. It's not that she can't sing in head, but she has disconnected it a lot by belting in a manner that isolates the head and chest. Don't get me wrong I love her voice, but if she tried to sing opera it would be like a cat stuck in water . If you listen to Chenoweth belt it never stays entirely in chest. She mixes as she ascends... and then of course she flips it over into a full head, which I don't like... I wish she would mix higher than she does, but that's her prerogative. Now I agree her placement is probably not where it could be as far as opera goes, because she uses that bright and wide broadway placement... which from what I understand is perfectly healthy, it's just not how you sing opera. In fact that's what my teacher and I worked on today. He says I've got the voice working freely, now all I need is put my vowels into a 'classical' placement... We worked with 'ee' in particular because I was able to sing it with a very light, shallow placement and then widen the sound into a full and rich 'operatic' vowel. The shallower vowel isn't "bad", I could easily get away with singing a broadway song using that kind of placement because it still has a nice ring to the sound, it just isn't as full as an operatic sound. Back to Chenoweth, I don't think we've ever heard her sing full on operatic style. The closest she comes is Glitter and Be Gay (or maybe in 'We Are Women') but it sounds to me like she's not really trying to be an opera singer, she's using a sort of blend between a theater and operatic sound. I think this is another good example... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdSDupGZZH0 It sounds like she has perfect registration to me, she's just placing the voice in a theater style. Quote:
Back to Chenoweth though, I think that despite her career as a broadway singer she'll also be amazing at the Met... assuming she has a good coach. I have heard mediocre singers start to sound AMAZING after a good coaching session... because if the technique is right, then the only problems are placement and vowels. I think she'll surprise a lot of people because she strikes me as being very musically intelligent, I think she's got great technique, and all she needs to sing opera is a slightly taller placement and round vowels. Of course all of this is just me speaking kind of hypothetically. I'm just an opinionated student . I certainly respect that you don't like her sound, and of course everything is so subjective... I could sit there and be awed by her performance and you could sit right next to me and think it sounds gross . |
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06-19-2009, 04:33 PM | #10 | |||||||
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There's precious little in the popular genres that a real soprano can sing with, and i think the same can be said for musical theater (where, as my teacher pointed out, most of the "soprano" roles are actually written in the classical mezzo range!). I think this is part of why i ended up concentrating on classical. That and because as a light soprano, i can't get away with singing in middle voice for all that long without getting vocally exhausted - though i can practice Handel and Mozart all day long without fatigue But i digress... Re. Chenoweth: Quote:
Regarding your "ee" vowel: That's another toughy, along with "ah". Specifically, the issue with "ee" is that instinctively, we want to 'spread' the space inside and it results in, well... more of that musical theater kind of placement. To get it forward and out, as i'm sure you're finding, it takes a very different, almost counter-intuitive placement. I've also heard that this vowel is especially a bug for you baritones. You'll get it, though. Good luck with it!
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" ...But the Exiles on the shores of the sea, if they turned towards the West in the desire of their hearts, spoke of Mar-nu-Falmar that was whelmed in the waves, Akallabêth the Downfallen, Atalantë in the Eldarin tongue." "Ye who believe in affection that hopes, and endures, and is patient, Ye who believe in the beauty and strength of woman's devotion, List to the mournful tradition still sung by the pines of the forest ... " ~ Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Evangeline |
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06-20-2009, 12:55 AM | #11 | ||
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I think she would make an amazing Olympia... her coloratura seems flawless. That's another thing that makes me think her technique must be fantastic: I've never heard her miss a note, and I've never heard her go seriously flat or sharp.
SO! Lets talk about vowels!!!!! Quote:
The thing that made my voice pop into the proper placement was fixing my 'ah' vowel. Before that my 'ee' vowel was the best, but even that was not as high as it needed to be. Getting that 'ah' right has allowed me to start placing every single vowel correctly. The sensation of singing has moved from resonance in my throat/jaw, to buzzing insanely on my hard palate right behind my front teeth, and also a lot more head resonance than I used to feel. Interestingly enough, most of my chest resonance feeling has gone away unless I'm singing in my extreme low register. The way my teacher describes placement, and what I'm coming to feel the same way about, is that every correctly sung vowel is like a tiny, tiny vowel stuck into a huge resonating space. The 'ee' thing I'm playing around with right now (starting with a tiny, shallow 'ee' then slowly opening it to a resonant 'ee') is absolutely fascinating to me. When I do the tiny, wide 'ee' I can feel the buzzing on my hard palate. As I expand the resonance to make a 'classical' vowel I feel that buzzing like it's just a very intense, but very tiny, pin-prick of vibration right on my hard palate and I bring in even more head resonance... I'm also opening the back of my throat just as much as I can. If I don't keep that tiny pin-prick of vibration placed correctly, then the whole sound drops back and everything becomes very dark and 'covered' sounding. If I bring back in that good placement then my voice becomes much more resonant and gets that good 'cutting' quality. Quote:
One thing I'm also finding is that 'oo' is a fun vowel to play around with. So long as I get it put in the right place, there's not much to it. Unlike having to fiddle around with the 'ee' and 'ah', 'oo' already has all of the under and overtones it needs. Something fun my voice teacher gave me to play around with is starting the 'ah' vowel with my jaw already dropped. I can't do it yet! I can do it up to about a G or an A with no problem, but once I start getting up into C/D land I'm just having a heck of a time. What I'm finding is that my attack is deficient (for now! ) on the upper notes. I can do a proper attack in my lower and middle range, but getting up higher I have trouble doing that nice gentle onset. I either do it too hard or too soft... on the hard attack the placement can't get settled in, and on the soft attack my voice cracks and wobbles for a second before the placement happens... the few times I got it right it was a nice instantaneous placement. We're really going to work on that and just drill it into my muscles because what we've found is that I can staccato a decent Ab right now... my throat is very open, I'm doing okay with keeping my jaw free of tension, and my tongue isn't shoving down... but my muscles just don't know how to create/sustain the sound yet. When I started with him my E's were iffy, and now I'm gaining some solidity through to the F... I can sustain an F, and staccato a pretty fair F#/G. So we know I'm making progress, and my body is obviously adapting to singing in the upper registers, but I need a little more time for my throat (and particularly my breath support) to get used to the high notes. I'm hoping this means that I'll have a good high A. If I want to get hired I'll definitely need that extension. I'm also really trying to figure out what my 'trick' will be . As someone... Leyontine Price, I think... said: "The way to get hired is to have a trick that the other ponies can't do!" My teacher and I discussed that today... He and I feel that my strengths are that I have very strong throat muscles (not a gigantic voice, but my muscles seem to be extremely strong and resilient), I have great attention to detail for singing, and I can focus for a very long time on even minute details. He believes that I also have a certain natural 'quality' to the sound that will help me get hired. But other than that we're sort of waiting and hoping for something to develop that will be a clear indication of an ability I can expand on to give me a leg up. |
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06-20-2009, 03:18 PM | #12 | |||||||||||
Lady of Andúnië
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I do not feel the "pinprick of vibration" on the palette as you do, at all. But this is one of those lower/larger voice things, i believe, from what i've gathered. The way i feel my correct placement is more like a soft, cushioned sense of resonance that feels (as odd as this sounds) like it is somewhere out beyond the bridge of my nose. And of course, this is balanced by the lifted palette, back space, etc. But the vowels need to take place in that cushioned, forward, 'happy place' out there, not behind it and not with any involvement from the tongue base or the jaw (And believe me when i say i have worked through my fair share of tongue tension Not fun!). Quote:
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Mine is the "floated" high (but not freakishly-high) note. The spun-silver A, Bb, etc. I've had people, even teachers, swoon over them (much to my surprise!). Another thing people like is my trill. These things that people say about your voice when you least expect it, the things different people along the way in completely unrelated situations notice and expound upon to you out of the blue, are the things you should remember. Catalogue these things in your mind. These are the things that set you apart from the herd. That said, i would love to have borrowed other peoples' strengths at times - what i wouldn't have done to have dog-whistle notes like Dessay's! But that was when i was younger, and singing for 'shock value', and to 'impress'. These days, i am simply enjoying my lyric voice. I guess you could say it's been a journey of self-acceptance, in a way. Nature did not give me a shock-value voice - it gave me a voice that can share heartfelt emotion and evoke tenderness. To embrace the truth about my instrument was a really significant step toward further techincal development. I know i've covered a lot of ground here, Tessar, even touching upon things you did not ask - but i've been really enjoying these chats with you. Where are our other singers? Surely we're not the only ones here on Entmoot who have studied classical voice? I hope the others come out of the woodwork soon and add their 2 cents.
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" ...But the Exiles on the shores of the sea, if they turned towards the West in the desire of their hearts, spoke of Mar-nu-Falmar that was whelmed in the waves, Akallabêth the Downfallen, Atalantë in the Eldarin tongue." "Ye who believe in affection that hopes, and endures, and is patient, Ye who believe in the beauty and strength of woman's devotion, List to the mournful tradition still sung by the pines of the forest ... " ~ Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Evangeline |
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06-20-2009, 12:21 PM | #13 |
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BTW, to hopefully further support my thought that a singer can have the classical placement and still use a broadway/theater placement with all the correct registration would be Mario Lanza.
Opera: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB0jORbXkbk Theater: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHRj_...eature=related Now there is a definite difference between Chenoweth's theater vowels and Lanza's, but I think (again, me speaking possibly without entirely correct knowledge) that has a lot to do with the fact that he's a guy and she's a girl... it's much easier for guys to speak-sing into their higher registers because of our chest connection... where as for women (speaking particularly of sopranos) the vowels tend to start disappearing and turning to 'uh' much sooner than they do for men. Also he's got a gigantic voice, and she has a small voice... I definitely think that makes a difference. O_o Last edited by Tessar : 06-20-2009 at 12:23 PM. |
06-20-2009, 03:22 PM | #14 | |||
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So much that we've been discussing has to do with variety. It's such an important thing to remember. If all the birds in the word had the same call, it'd be a far less musical place.
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" ...But the Exiles on the shores of the sea, if they turned towards the West in the desire of their hearts, spoke of Mar-nu-Falmar that was whelmed in the waves, Akallabêth the Downfallen, Atalantë in the Eldarin tongue." "Ye who believe in affection that hopes, and endures, and is patient, Ye who believe in the beauty and strength of woman's devotion, List to the mournful tradition still sung by the pines of the forest ... " ~ Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Evangeline Last edited by Voronwen : 06-20-2009 at 03:23 PM. |
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06-20-2009, 07:19 PM | #15 |
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Tessar, i've had a few more thoughts about vowels while i was out grocery shopping, of all things Here's what i thought of...
Perhaps part of the issue with vowels has something to do with regional inflection. What made me start ruminating on this was the difference in the way my husband and i say the word carrot. I am a native of New England, and i say "cah-rrot", whereas he, a Midwestern native, says "care-rot". It got me thinking that this may be a part of the puzzle... What are your thoughts on that? Sorry for all the posts in a row!
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" ...But the Exiles on the shores of the sea, if they turned towards the West in the desire of their hearts, spoke of Mar-nu-Falmar that was whelmed in the waves, Akallabêth the Downfallen, Atalantë in the Eldarin tongue." "Ye who believe in affection that hopes, and endures, and is patient, Ye who believe in the beauty and strength of woman's devotion, List to the mournful tradition still sung by the pines of the forest ... " ~ Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Evangeline |
06-20-2009, 11:50 PM | #16 | |||||||
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I realized that he puts an 'uh' into the heart of every vowel he speaks. It's so slight you wouldn't notice it in his speaking unless you're listening for it, but I think it's at the root of his singing problems. I'm really proud of him though! His voice is going to take a long time to develop because he's got such massive amounts of body tension, but he's already showing small, measurable improvements. Quote:
I have a powerful desire to learn about the voice, and I'm aware of how tiny my knowledge is right now. I'm always trying to pull in whatever new information I can get . I know I have a great ear, so the more I learn the more I'm able to interpret what I'm hearing. Quote:
Of course on the other hand I had a baritone voice teacher who didn't make a lot of improvement in my voice when I was younger... I'll never know if it was simply because he couldn't teach, or if my voice just wasn't ready then to start developing... but either way I don't think I got much technique out of him. Quote:
Of course it's equally possible that I'm on the right path but still need to get my voice further forward! This higher placement in my voice may still not be high enough... as I continue to develop the placement it may end up moving further forward. Who knows! I recall reading that Rosa Ponselle placed all of her resonance right in the middle of her forehead, but when she tried to get Beverly Sills to do the same thing it just about wrecked Sills' voice. Poneslle's voice was certainly a great deal larger than Sills', and her body build was also quite different. Quote:
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I really think it has to do with the technique. I have a feeling if the technique is solid those notes will be there. Quote:
Here's a question for you though, and it is not entirely in regards to Chenoweth: Should the need for amplification exclude a voice from singing in an opera house? I have mixed feelings about it. Like you said, in most cases if the technique is good even a very small voice can be heard. But then again I've heard what singers like Sumi Jo can do with a microphone. A singer with a naturally large voice doesn't have to sing full blast to be heard in a large space, so they can afford to pull back a little and play with the dynamics. So should a smaller voiced person have to sing full out the entire time and sacrifice a great deal of dynamics? Many times smaller voiced singers can also do absolutely breath-taking pianissimos that the majority of large voiced singers can't touch. Take for example Sumi Jo... her high pianissimos are stunning, and even at her softest Renee Fleming can't match her (although Renee's pianissimos are nothing to sneeze at). But if both did a forte you would probably hear a whole lot more from Renee than you would from Sumi. |
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06-21-2009, 01:33 AM | #17 | |||||||||||
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Good luck with the teaching experience! Is teaching something you may want to do someday as an extension of your career? Quote:
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" ...But the Exiles on the shores of the sea, if they turned towards the West in the desire of their hearts, spoke of Mar-nu-Falmar that was whelmed in the waves, Akallabêth the Downfallen, Atalantë in the Eldarin tongue." "Ye who believe in affection that hopes, and endures, and is patient, Ye who believe in the beauty and strength of woman's devotion, List to the mournful tradition still sung by the pines of the forest ... " ~ Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Evangeline |
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06-21-2009, 01:25 AM | #18 |
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Cool thread, great idea Tessar.
About your opera question, is that taking into considerations the accoustics of the opera house? Or is it just assumed that it's built for good acoustics. Because it's been my experience (however little that may be) that one can have a full, powerful voice but if the acoustics of a place are terrible then there's not much that be done with out a microphone.
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06-22-2009, 04:05 AM | #19 | |||||
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I wish I could take credit for it, but the thread was actually Voronwen's idea . You are correct in saying that even a big voice doesn't stand a chance in a place with horrible acoustics, and opera houses do differ. I've been told that American opera houses tend to be much larger than European ones, and sometimes do not have as good acoustics. Quote:
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What's cute is that I know a lyric soprano who gave me some lessons, and she told me that when she was young she loved to sing the A5. Now she loves to sing the G5 (she was 45 at the time). According to her husband, her voice was annoying when she was young! He said her sound lost a lot of the 'over bright' character that annoyed him as she went into her 30's, and her voice is still very brilliant and shimmers, but there's also a lovely mature color to it now. Her story was a bit like yours, actually... she really cautioned me not to push myself too hard for high notes. When she was studying in the conservatory the big thing was that F6, and apparently some days she could push herself up to the A6, but once she got out of school she realized she really didn't need those notes. Quote:
Here's my angle: If you are physically capable of singing Song to the Moon (which I absolutely adore) then why not? So you'll never perform the role. What about recitals? Just because you can't sing something under one situation (i.e. standing behind a full orchestra in a large opera house) why should you be prevented from singing it in a more optimal setting? Like with a minimal orchestration, or a piano, or with slight amplification, or any other dozen possibilities. It's different if the song doesn't sound good in your voice. Then I could understand not learning it. But if it does sound good, then why not? I think sometimes people get too caught up in this cycle of believing in an idealistic setting for an aria. For instance I was talking to a friend about a counter-tenor I liked in a Handel opera. He said that only a mezzo should sing the aria because if it were an opera-house setting, the counter tenor wouldn't be heard as easily as a mezzo. When I asked him directly, he had to admit that the counter tenor had sung the aria very beautifully, and actually could be heard very well over the orchestra. I think in many cases it comes down to how people have heard the music performed before. It would be like saying a tulip is an ugly flower, because you're used to seeing roses, rather than appreciating the unique beauty of the tulip. Take Renee Fleming. I'm sure she would never actually play the role of Candeed, but she sings a gorgeous "Glitter and Be Gay." But a lot of people say that she should never sing that piece because the role isn't right for her voice. Lots of people said that Jessye Norman should never have sung half the things she did because the pieces were too 'small' for her voice, but she sang them beautifully in my opinion. Just because she might not have actually been cast in the roles doesn't mean she shouldn't be allowed to perform selections. I think there's a fine line between honoring the music and attempting to keep music in a glass prison. Of course that once again falls under the category of personal taste. Back to vowels!! My teacher and I had a conversation during our second lesson and we touched on the same idea again this last Friday. When most people talk about coloring the voice, they end up using things like slightly depressing the larynx for a 'darker' color, or lessening the mouth space to create a muted pianissimo, or raising the larynx for a plaintive sound. It always sounded a little fishy to me, but I could see how those things would create the sound. But what my teacher thinks, and I agree with, is that you can use vowels to create the exact same effect. He showed me how different vowels have different 'resonances'... for instance 'ah' is a very bright vowel and actually sounds like a slightly higher pitch than 'aw' or 'auh' does. So coloring of the voice has just about everything to do with threading a darker or brighter vowel into the heart of whatever other vowel you're actually singing. I am still far from being at a point where I can sing with good technique AND worry about advanced things like coloring my vowels excessively (to quote my teacher: "If you can sing with pure vowels automatically in six months that would be amazing progress. THEN we can talk about coloring the vowels... ), but it seems very solid theoretically speaking. Any thoughts? I'm really excited to be working with this guy. I feel like if I can stick with him and keep making progress he'll help me grow to be an actual artist and performer. He's also hilarious. Half the time he's encouraging me as though I'm about to be the next performer at the Met. and the rest of the time he's making fun of my bad technique . For instance I have a bad habit of singing with tight lips. We got about halfway through the Policeman's Song from Pirates of Penzance before he threw up his hands and said, "MY GOD! What is that noise!? Do you have a speech impediment?You don't talk like you do, so why the hell would you sing like you do? Stop that!" It made me laugh . I think he and I just work together very well... he realizes he can tell me directly and bluntly what the problems in my voice are and that I'll understand he's talking about the bad habit and not about me personally. I do have to be careful. With the complements he gives me I think I could very easily get ahead of myself. Self confidence is one thing, but I am very aware (and hopefully will always be) that even if you're incredible, and even if you experience great success, that doesn't make you the best. It means you're good, but it doesn't make you the best. Last edited by Tessar : 06-22-2009 at 04:09 AM. |
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06-22-2009, 01:42 PM | #20 | ||||||||||||
Lady of Andúnië
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Andúnië
Posts: 572
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Welcome to the Singers' Thread, Pip! Yes, this thread was my idea, for good or ill! I just thought that rather than rambling on taking up space on the Classical Music thread, that Tessar and i, and anyone else who might like to join us, could come over here and discuss the matters that concern classical singers. But other types of singers are welcome, too - we can all learn something from one another!
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I think in my case i felt that because it's something that i started out having, that i had to work desperately in order to hold on to it, at all costs - even going into whistletone in order to keep it (but this was terribly unwise, as vocal transitions are something we need to simply work with and accept). Why do i feel that it's whistletone? Because it is so disconnected from the rest of my voice. Also, the more i work with it (what i now call my 'false' extension - E6, F6, etc...), the effect it has on the rest of my range is an imbalancing one. By that i mean, i wind up feeling less connection overall between my registers, weakness or trouble in places i never felt it before, etc. It ends with me going back to basics for a while to reallign my voice. When my voice is alligned and in well-working order, my highest "real" note is an Eb6. My instinct tells me that pushing myself beyond that might not be entirely healthy for my voice, so i have been listening to that. Believe me i had spent literally *years* wondering whether it was a fault of my own ("I should be trying harder!"), or my teacher's (several teachers later...), etc, wondering whether i was simply missing something that would suddenly make everything click and i'd have a whole new world of repertoire to have fun with. But alas, no. With time, however, having the highest note humanly possible was not so important to me anymore. Eventually i learned that it's the whole voice that matters - not whether or not i could sing notes that only dogs could hear. Quote:
The cost, however, of gaining this new dimension to my sound, was the loss of the high E's and F's. Quote:
Don't get me wrong - I can on some days still get through Vorrei spiegarvi, o Dio!, which a teacher once handed to me and said, "This is perfect for your temperament." It may be, but i can't sustain a repertoire filled with high E's, especially since my voice has been filling out some. Quote:
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I think, too, what concerns voice teachers is that they are worried that the student will go for a "bigger" sound than their voice should be making, just to fit the generally accepted idea of what these arias should sound like. The way around this though, is to sing these arias in your OWN voice. As long as the singer stays within what constitutes healthy singing for their own instrument, and doesn't "push" for a bigger sound, they'll be alright. It's when they push to try to conform to the generally accepted sound for a role, or to be heard over the orchestration, that it can lead to serious vocal problems. Quote:
But now, yes, back to vowels... Quote:
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" ...But the Exiles on the shores of the sea, if they turned towards the West in the desire of their hearts, spoke of Mar-nu-Falmar that was whelmed in the waves, Akallabêth the Downfallen, Atalantë in the Eldarin tongue." "Ye who believe in affection that hopes, and endures, and is patient, Ye who believe in the beauty and strength of woman's devotion, List to the mournful tradition still sung by the pines of the forest ... " ~ Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Evangeline Last edited by Voronwen : 06-22-2009 at 01:46 PM. |
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