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01-14-2004, 02:20 PM | #1 | ||||
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Arthurian Legends
In the thread in the Entertainment Forum about the new Arthurian movie, talk naturally fell to great books about King Arthur.
Discuss all these great books here! My favourite Arthurian book (and second favourite book of all time) is The Skystone, by Jack Whyte. Here is a post I was going to put in the movie thread (but it has only to do with Arthurian books): Quote:
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01-14-2004, 07:37 PM | #2 | |
Elf Lord
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orderves
Hmm. How would T.H. White's The Once and Future King
be rated (great?). When I was in college it was required reading for freshmen in Literature class. Also, I've gotten, but not yet read The Book of Merlyn, which is "The Unpublished Conclusion to The Once and Future King." The jacket blurb is interesting. Part of it says Quote:
"Milady we shall put an end to that Gallic bag of noise and nerve. When we do all that we intend to he'll be a plate of French orderves."
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01-14-2004, 09:09 PM | #3 |
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Cool! You are right. This thread belongs in Literature.
I like T.H. White and the musical Camelot. I think Steinbeck follows Mallory mostly. Now, where in Mallory is the Lancelot / Guinivere romance? Both my copies must be incomplete because I am not finding that. In fact, I think they are both selections from Mallory. I've been bopping about in the Arthurian stuff all week. I'll re-state my opinion from the Entertainment thread. I think the diverse versions of the Arthurian myths are an essential aspect of medievalism and seeking an ur-text, a definitive version, or an historical Arthur are all modernist ideas. I'd rather put myself into the frame of mind of the authors. I think the people of the 12th to 14th centuries EXPECTED their poets to give the story their own spin, based on the values of their own cultures. Along those lines, the feminism of Mysts of Avalon is actually a traditional thing to do because MZB is rewriting the legends with the 20th century values.
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01-14-2004, 09:14 PM | #4 | |||
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Also, it is entirely possible that Mists of Avalon (and the two prequels) is fairly historically accurate. The Celts were much more egalitarian than the Romans.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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01-15-2004, 01:45 AM | #5 | |
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01-15-2004, 04:16 PM | #6 |
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I freely confess to knowing very little about Arthurian legends, and actually to not being very interested in the various permutations – to me, sometimes people seem to take it too seriously, as if it were the only myth in the world! However, I did very much enjoy Malory. It was much easier to read than I expected and it was so absorbing – I loved it. No one seems to share my passion though
Anyway, I'm willing to learn more...
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01-15-2004, 05:12 PM | #7 |
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I've read Mallory (a translation into modern English by a 'Keith Baines" I think) and really not too much else.
I was REALLY interested in a statement Elfhelm made in the 'King Arthur - The Movie' thread, where he said that whatever the historical reality was doesn't matter as much as what we have in literature. I find it so interesting because my view is so opposite to that! Just different viewpoints! sun-star, I think what some people like so much about Arthurian legends is that there IS so little we can actually KNOW about him historically. That makes him oh-so-malleable for anyone who wants to use him to make their point about something. That's why we have so many different versions of his story - because 'he' is used to transmit so many ideas. And, I take it (correct me if I'm wrong Elfhelm) that the thrust of what Elfhelm is saying is that BECAUSE Arthurian literature has varied so much over the course of time, it gives us that much greater insight into those who wrote it - and their times. Is that a fair statement Elfhelm? Or was there more to your comment than that? |
01-16-2004, 12:10 PM | #8 |
Elf Lord
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My favourite KA-book is most definitely Roger Lancely Green's
King Arthur and his knights of the Round Table. On another point NO ATTEMPT at a new movie about KA can ever beat John Boorman's Excalibur, which is the number one King Arthur movie. |
01-16-2004, 01:06 PM | #9 | |
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Anyway, how does a translation of Malory work exactly? Is it a word-for-word translation of obsolete words, or does the author shape the story in their own way? It's an interesting idea, I think, in terms of what "authorship" really is I must get one and try and compare. Grey Wolf, I grew up loving Roger Lancelyn Green's version. My copy has excellent illustrations, as well.
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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01-17-2004, 04:07 AM | #10 | |
Elf Lord
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I've read Green's version several times and I agree with you that the illustrations are excellent indeed and is by far the best version. I've also read Anastasio's quartet. It was good (but a bit wordy). Then I'm waiting for parts 4 and 5 of Mary Stewart's quintet and I have Stephen R Lawhead's quintet as well (haven't read either author's version yet). Last edited by Grey_Wolf : 01-17-2004 at 04:10 AM. |
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01-17-2004, 04:35 AM | #11 | ||||
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Stephen Lawhead is a genius, you're in for a treat. His Arthurian series is excellent, and so are his other books that I've read. (Such as "The Song of Albion", which b.banner has a thread about.)
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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01-20-2004, 09:10 AM | #12 |
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Other than Malory, I thought Mary Stewart's first two were great: "The Crystal Cave" and "The Hollow Hills" ; "The Lasrt Enchantment" and "The Wicked Day" were disappointing.
And for movies, the definitive treatment is, of course, Monty Python and the Holy Grail
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01-20-2004, 09:32 PM | #13 | ||
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I've seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail about 10 times.
But this is the liturature side of Arthurian legends. Which is the difinitive book for you guys?
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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01-21-2004, 12:17 PM | #14 | |
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01-24-2004, 10:40 PM | #15 | ||
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What are all the knights like in RLGs version? My absolute favourite knights of all time are King Arthur, Sir Kay, and Sir Gawaine. (In order! Not to say that Gawaine is my least favourite, just that Arthur is the best, and I really identify with Kay.)
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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01-25-2004, 05:50 AM | #16 | |
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Last edited by Grey_Wolf : 01-25-2004 at 06:34 AM. |
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01-30-2004, 12:11 PM | #17 |
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I've actually rereread RGL's version now (this thread inspired me).
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01-30-2004, 02:01 PM | #18 | ||
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I'm glad this thread has led to more Arthurian legend reading!
I don't dislike Lancelot, I just never really identify with him. In fact, the only knight (if you could call him one) that I don't like is Sir Mordred. (But nobody likes him anyway!)
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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03-14-2004, 07:13 PM | #19 |
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I read a rather good Arthurian book called "Forgotten Camelot" or something like that. It included stories that are mostly untold in other versions.
Sir Gawain is my favourite.
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03-16-2004, 05:41 PM | #20 |
Elven Warrior
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Arthurian legends are something i was always interested in, but never pursued. this year, however, i've read a translation of "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" (which was pretty good), Mary Stewart's "The Hollow Hills" (which i liked), and an excerpt - i guess - from Mallory's Le Morte d' Arthur. That i didn't really like, but i think it was mostly the language that was used.
it's interesting though, to see where all the different authors' versions stray from one another, and what they have in common that is believed to be "fact" concerning King Arthur.
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