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07-03-2004, 10:26 PM | #1 |
The Insufferable
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,333
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Epilogue 2: Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age
…In which these tales come to their end.
Okay. So... The second wrapping-up chapter starts out by telling us of the fate of Sauron the Maia, Lieutenant of Morgoth. After his Master is defeated and cast out into the Void, Sauron surrenders and says he’s sorry. Eonwe, who seems to be in charge of the Valar’s Army, says he’ll have to come back and work out a deal with Manwe. Sauron instead runs and hides until they’ve all left, and then falls back into his old habits. Beleriand having been destroyed, the elves and men that lived there go about moving elsewhere. Numenor is founded, as are Lindon and Mithlond, Hollin, and Lothlorien. Otherwise Middle Earth is ‘savage and desolate’, and everybody seems content to leave it that way for now. Except for Sauron. The old fellow wastes no time getting to work, since he’s getting arrogant in the absence of the Valar. He corrupts lots of men, and does his best with the elves (even though he hates the Eldar), managing to pass himself off as a friend (under the name ‘Annatar’ - Lord of Gifts) and convinces them to help him ‘make Middle-Earth fair‘. Elrond and Gil-Galad sense something’s up, but the rest of them, especially the Noldor in Eregion (Lindon) agree to do so. Sauron lives up to the name he’s given himself, and teaches the Noldor all sorts of neat stuff - Either that they’d never learned, or that had died with the elder generations in Beleriand. Their skill increases manyfold, surpassing everything they’ve done before. Guided subtly by Sauron, they conceive and begin work on the Rings of Power. Saurons’s desire in this is to gain power over the elves, so while they make their rings he forges… One Ring to Rule them All! dum-dum-DUMM This Ring is the capstone, so to speak, of the entire project. All the other rings will work only as long as this one is, and they are subject wholly to it. In order to control their power (which was great), Sauron invests much of his own power and strength and will into the One Ring, making it ‘a thing of surpassing potency’. But, as soon as he puts it on, the Elves become aware of his plans, and take off their rings. Since Sauron’s whole plan seems to be failing, he comes to the Elves in open force, and demands that they give him the rings, since he helped make them. He does manage to take back the rings, except for the last Three, which are the most powerful and ward off the decays of time. The Three are given ‘into the hands of the wise’, who conceal them. Of the rings which he manages to take back, he gives Seven to the Dwarves, and Nine to Men, figuring if he can’t ensnare the Elves at least he’ll get some use out of the rings. Unfortunately for him, Aule made the Dwarves all but immune to that sort of control or influence, but men prove yet again easy to manipulate. The Nine who take these rings are utterly consumed, and become Wraiths, Sauron’s most terrible servants. Sauron himself is feeling pretty good about this whole business, and in his pride decides he’s going to be the ruler of all middle earth. Even though he’s still able to manipulate and deceive, he decides force and fear are more his style, and those are what he uses. Yeah. Anyway. The Numenoreans come and scare off all his thugs. So he falls back on deception, the results of which we should all be familiar with (Go Here for a refresher if you’re not). When Numenor goes under, Elendil and his family escape with the White Tree, and the Palantir, and some other neat stuff. They found kingoms in Middle-Earth; Arnor and Gondor. But Sauron also survives (he merely loses his pretty face) and doesn't waste much time making war on them. Elrond and Gil-Galad come to the Dunedain's aid, as do Durin's Folk. The combined force assaults Mordor and eventually wins the way to Barad Dur itself. Sauron comes out and kills Elendil and Gil-Galad, but is himself felled Isildur cuts of The Ring with what's left of Narsil. So, Sauron's routed, Isildur takes the Ring and is killed, the Ring is lost. Narsil goes to Isildur's son, but the Dunedain of the North are diminished, and there are to few of them left after the war to keep all the kingdom. Eventually the North-Kingdom splits into three realms which slowly dwindle away, until the only remnant is a strange people living in the wild. Gondor endures, and for a while it's almosta s good as Numenor was, but it too begins to wane. Anarion's line fails, his last descendants killed by a plague, and Mordor is left unguarded again. Sauron's minions return there, and after a period of waiting attack and take Minas Ithil, which becomes Minas Morgul, and Osgiliath is left in ruin, while Minas Anor becomes Minas Tirith. Earnur, the last king, rides off to single combat with the Lord of the Nagul, and doesn't come back. The stewards take over the duties of the kingship. Two of the Elven ringbearers - Elrond and Galadrial, use their powers to establish domains for themselvs, Imladris and Lothlorien, where their people can live free from evil things. Sauron finally reappears, in Greenwood, which becoems Mirkwood, and he dwells in Dol-Guldur. At this time the Wizards first appear as well, hving come over the sea. Thre are five of them. The three that are named are Gandalf, Saruman, and Radagast. Of these, Gandalf isthe most vigilant, and he discovers Sauron in Mirkwood, and tries to convince the others to act, but Saruman, who has become a traitor at heart, prevents it. When they finally do make a move, it is to late, and Sauron escapes to Mordor. The one ring had already been found, but now it surfaces, and Gandalf learns of it. This precipitates the War of the Ring... insert recap here. It's finally revealed that Gandalf had the Nenya, one of the Three., which Cirdan gave to him. Then everybody ships out to Valinor. Happily ever after. The End.
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Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned Last edited by Wayfarer : 07-04-2004 at 12:02 AM. |
07-03-2004, 10:38 PM | #2 | ||||||||||||||||||
The Insufferable
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,333
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Don't they desire that? Seriously, is sharing a uniquely human virtue? Quote:
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First it is of note that Sauron wrestled with Gil-galad and Elendil. Appearantly he preferred that to, say, Boxing or Fencing. Or a Singing contest. Hmm. But... who gets the credit for defeating Sauron? The text seems to indicate (to me) that GG and E managed to knock him down before kicking their respective buckets, but Isildur claims to have dealt 'a death blow'. What does that mean? Did he actually best Sauron - who had just killed the two best warriors in the combined army - or did he merely finish off a downed enemy? Opinions. Quote:
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Also.... What does it mean to have studied 'The devices of Sauron of old'? Does that refer to his actions in Beleriand? Quote:
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Do you think maybe the Nice Hobbitses did a little creative editing of what transpired? That would be much like Bilbo first did in his tale of how he got the ring... Or did someone else change the story to make it end more heroically? Quote:
Also, does Gandalf's possession of the Ring of Fire have anything to do with his penchant for Fire Works? Quote:
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Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned Last edited by Wayfarer : 07-03-2004 at 11:53 PM. |
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08-16-2004, 01:10 PM | #3 | ||||
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. For when you look long into the abyss, the abyss looks into you." I reckon Saruman was a bit too enthousiastic in his research on Sauron and looked a bit too deeply in the abyss. Quote:
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08-25-2004, 10:39 AM | #4 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Yeah it says something about Cirdan percieving that Gandalf was the wisest and would face terrible perils.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
08-26-2004, 05:16 AM | #5 |
The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Far Harad
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yeah I always thought the ring would inspire in the hearts of people the ideas of the first age and the spirit of the first age. SOmething that would cause them to rise and take action. That would be a powerful tool if you ask me.
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08-30-2004, 08:20 PM | #6 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
Join Date: Dec 2002
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This is my favorite part of the Sil, and the only one I reread every year. Good job, Wayfarer!
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
10-19-2004, 07:49 AM | #7 | ||
The Intermittent One
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These two are linked in my mind. |
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10-19-2004, 01:29 PM | #8 | ||
The Insufferable
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,333
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<.< >.>
Silly subforum. I think I've been missing people's posts here. Quote:
Most likely, he tried to redeem himself by attempting to act good and stay out of trouble on his own. But that doesn't work, so he eventually fell back into old habits. Quote:
I agree that Sauron most likely picked up a taste for power while working for Morgoth... but the text seems, to me at least, that there was something else at work. It has been fairly well established elsewhere that Morgoth had the power to constrain certain creatures (such as orcs) to evil, in essence 'binding' them to do his will even after he was gone. Would it be possible for him to have done the same to Sauron (who, as you may recall, later claimed to be Morgoth returned.)
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Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned |
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05-27-2006, 05:27 PM | #9 | |
I'm Eru, and lord of Arda.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: southampton, hampshire
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http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm As well as this, Michael Martinez has also written a good essay on the subject at: http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/58090
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Vote for me, Jammi567, in the 2008 Entmoot elections, and you will get many of the things we need: free, unbiased, newspapers; a strong alliance with many countries, so that war doesn't start over someone breaking their nose on a doorframe; etc, etc This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved. Last edited by jammi567 : 05-28-2006 at 04:21 PM. |
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05-27-2008, 08:24 AM | #10 | ||||
Sapling
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Paris
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I always thought that this meant things like, if i don't do x,y,z the everlasting darkness will overtake me. You know, Oaths, like the sort of bonds that the Oath of the Sons of Feanor laid on them. At the end of the Silmarillion Maedhros and Maglor have this discussion about whether they should steal the silmarils or just surrender. But they finally decide they have to honor the Oath or they will be screwed.
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So we see that Feanor and Fingon were killed by taking on more than one balrog and Glorfindel and Gandalf killed a balrog in one on one combat and were killed in the process. The one who seems to have fared best was Feanor holding of several balrogs until maedhros and the bros came to his aid, but Feanor was mortally wounded and died. I believe it is a question of those who walk in the seen world (man, hobbit, dwarf) vs those who walk in the both the seen and the unseen world (vala, maia, eldar) and that only those who walk in both worlds can defeat a maia. IN the Letters of JRRT, Tolkien said that even with the Ring, no mortal could have defeated Sauron and he implied that only Elrond had a clear chance. So since the Eldar have 100% failure rate in surviving one on one combat with balrogs. We can assume that Gil-Galad's death was a foregone conclusion and Elendil never had any chance at all. In any event it seems that if gil-galad's best chance was mutual death against Sauron without the ring, then with the ring he needed Elendil's help. So my answer is Sauron was defeated only because those two took him on together. Isildur might of slit the throat of a downed enemy but he was periheral to the story of that combat. Quote:
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We can contrast the power of Gandalf's ring with that of the Witch King. The Witch King wields fear. Gandalf wields hope. The Witch King is very powerful. Last thought on Elven rings. While sam's gardner box was created using the power of Galadriel's ring, Frodo's Phial of Galadriel seems to have had some true power too. I think maybe it was some sort of device that allowed him to channel galadriel's help or the power of her Elven Ring. Like when they defeated the watchers at the pass of Cirith Ungol. Galadriel was quite powerful but as tolkien says in the Letters, while she seemed to think she could defeat Sauron with the Ring, Tolkien wasn't quite sure. My question concerning Galadriel. How does she know that she has been forgiven and can pass into middle earth (it is stated somewhere that her ban on returning to valinor is lifted because she refused the ring from frodo) Last edited by kerbouchard : 01-05-2009 at 07:16 PM. |
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07-04-2004, 07:49 AM | #11 | ||||||
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7
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Re: Discussion:
Good stuff Wayfarer, and in your own unmistakable style.
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As for how the Elves were aware that Sauron had betrayed them, iirc it was because he was trying to peek into their minds, using the Ring as some sort of medium, perhaps. Quote:
In a way Celebrimbor made a similar mistake as his grandfather, trying to increase his power and skills by listening to a sweet-tongued and fair-looking villain. I think the death of Celebrimbor is very sad - there goes the last of Fëanor's bloodline in Middle-Earth (at least there are no other known children of Fëanor's sons, though some of them were married). Quote:
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07-04-2004, 12:41 PM | #12 | |
AngAdan
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Boerne, Texas
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Last edited by Lefty Scaevola : 07-04-2004 at 12:43 PM. |
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07-05-2004, 11:01 PM | #13 | ||||||||||||||
The Tall
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Formenos
Posts: 578
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Again Wayfarer brilliant work.
Now to your questions: Quote:
From Morgoth's Ring: Myths Transformed Quote:
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From the bigger perspective, he was wrong, the Valar had not forgotten about ME, but they had come to realize that it would have to be the races of ME to deal with their world. Because Sauron was a maiar, they send others of their same order to battle him, but just think for a moment, look at the consequences of the Valar in bringing some of the Elves to Valinor, can you image if they intervened again, if something worse would have happened? Quote:
From the Letter # 131 Quote:
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From the Book of Lost Tales II: The Fall of Gondolin Quote:
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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07-06-2004, 06:23 PM | #14 | |
Fëanorophobic
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Between the pages of a book
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Great stuff, Wayfarer
It seems that most of your questions were answered, but here is my humble contribution: Quote:
As to your question about who's responsible for Sauron's death, I think that Sauron's being "thrown down" wouldn't have counted for much had Isildur not cut the Ring from his finger. He put too much of his power into the Ring for him to live on without it. But that strikes me as odd: in the Third Age, he managed to return to ME and even muster great forces for the War of the Ring and he did all that without the Ring's help. IOW, he managed fine without it. How is it then that he was killed in the SA when the Ring was taken from him? Thoughts anybody?? |
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07-06-2004, 06:42 PM | #15 |
AngAdan
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Boerne, Texas
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Both Sauron and Sauruman were of the Mair of Aule, the craftsman Valar.
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07-06-2004, 11:50 PM | #16 | |||
The Tall
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Formenos
Posts: 578
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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07-07-2004, 05:00 AM | #17 |
Fëanorophobic
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Between the pages of a book
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And you say that this is anything but a Tolkien forum? Man, what would the Sil. forum do without you?
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07-07-2004, 10:39 AM | #18 | |
The Tall
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Formenos
Posts: 578
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As to what the Sil forum will do without me, well I guess it will do what it has always done, move on.
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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07-15-2004, 03:19 AM | #19 | |||
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7
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Re: Discussion:
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Gandalf was fond of fireworks, but he would have been so without his ring as well. There is a description if him from the UT which tells much: Quote:
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--Life is hard, and then we die. |
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