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#1 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
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All your mail are belong to us? Or PRISM
A lot of dust-up on the 'net these days about Prism. The report that the NSA routineously collected metadata from Verizon was just the tip of the iceberg, as some of internet giants are said to have happily handed over access to user-data as well.
There's a lot of speculation going on rather than hard evidence from what I've been reading. Of course the internet giants are denying they're allowing unfettered access to their user data, but they're being a bit coy about how much access they do allow, then. It seems to be anyone' guess, really. I find myself hardly surprised that governments would amass data on people through internet and phone companies, whether it's specific or general info. (Although I am rather annoyed at the idea that the NSA is more interested in foreign people's data and that American people shouldn't worry? WTF is that about? Like it's no less of an intrusion in privacy if you only do it to foreigners? We have our own big brother to deal with, don't need an American one on top of that.) I kinda wonder what sort of data server they'd need to keep everyone's phone records and internet use data well, indefinitely. I suspect it won't be working with mere terrabites, if such a secret server does exist. Anyway, it'd be interesting to hear other people's opinion on this. |
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#2 |
Elf Lady
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In the lands where mountains are but a fairytale
Posts: 8,588
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Undoubtedly if this all is true, there must be some kind of reward for the internet giants. They work with the best hackers. Surely the NSA couldn't just gain access without their knowledge.
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Love always, deeply and true ★ Friends are those rare people who ask how we are and then wait to hear the answer. ★ Friendship is sharing openly, laughing often, trusting always, caring deeply.
...The Earth laughs in flowers ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson, "Hamatreya"... |
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#3 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
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Yeah, that is one of the things that remain unclear to me. Or the NSA has 'hacked' the internet and has found a way to get all that information without help of the big internet companies. If which case pretty much any good hacker should be to repeat the process as I doubt the NSA has the best of the best hackers available and no other hacker has those skills, which seems doubtful to me.
Or the internet companies either allow the NSA access to their user data (limited or otherwise) and specifically hand them the data when requested. The companies all seem to say they're doing the latter, and only when there's a court order presented for the information. Yet it's not impossible the reality is the former, but then there's a range of possibilities concerning what kind of access the NSA has and no real method of finding out. |
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#4 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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I feel sorry for the guy tasked with reading through my thousands of posts here!
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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#5 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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Aww, don't be so modest, brownie!
![]() ![]() (your posts are delightful ![]()
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! ![]() "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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#6 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
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Also not surprised, also annoyed that foreigners appear to be fair game. Though of course, no doubt our lot would do exactly the same if they could. In fact they probably are.
Corporations are required by law to deny any co-operation, so we should all read absolutely nothing into their denials. Their incentive for co-operating is being allowed to stay in business. And no way the NSA would do this by the back door if they can get the companies to do it for them. If you think about it, this brings the companies "inside the tent", which creates a nice symbiosis. Nice for the companies and the government anyway. I fully expect those companies are leveraging this goodwill in every way they can conceive of. |
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#7 | ||
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
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Quote:
![]() Quote:
And it actually kinda would be alright with me if those things really were used only for fighting terrorism. But considering our government's track record... you can bet they will be used from everything to traffic tickets. Especially traffic tickets, our government seem quite obsessed with those. It's the one thing they consistently have put before people's privacy. ![]() |
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#8 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
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Yes, this is true, and worth remembering.
I tend to think that government is, generally speaking, a good thing. People who always whine about government should go and live in Somalia and see how they like the libertarian paradise. That said, it's only good if it's accountable. And that was the really egregious thing about all this terrorist legislation, it took away that accountability and hid it behind a flag. All to prevent something that poses less of a risk to society than road traffic. Of course, the problem with giving powers to people in authority is that they willl tend to use them. We've had some pretty egregious examples here, e.g. Quote:
IMO this is worse than PRISM, which at least seems to have some sort of democratic oversight. The fact that they are doing it hand in hand with corporations tells me that the corporations are getting something out of it, and that is more worrying. |
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#9 | |
Cyber Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Left of Rock, Right of Hard Place
Posts: 986
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Gaffer,
I would not exactly consider Somalia an example of a libertarian paradise. The warlords are more similar to different governments. Smaller in size and scope, but similar in many respects. I tend to think less gov't better with the ideal being no gov't. Getting it to work in practice is the difficult part. ![]() Quote:
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Sincerely, Anthony 'Many are my names in many countries,' he said. 'Mithrandir among the Elves, Tharkûn to the Drarves; Olórin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, in the South Incánus, in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not.' Faramir What nobler employment, or more valuable to the state, than that of the man who instructs the rising generation? Cicero (106BC-43BC) |
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#10 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
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We can agree on that, anyway.
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#11 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium)
Posts: 14,363
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We had a bit of a ruckus here revently when one of the biggest telecom operators (Belgacom, ex-government company, now partly privatised) discovered that they have been infected with malware for the last two years that has left their records open for foreign viewing. The company was not amused.
(Interesting tidbit is that microsoft, when asked for help, failed to find the malware, an independant firm had to get rid of it. Goes to show how 'well' microsoft knows to protect their own computers...) The NSA seemed the likely culprit but now people are pointing to the Brits' secret service GCHQ. I admit, didn't see that one coming. Even Lizzie's folk aren't above some old-fashioned spying, I see. (Operation socialist? For real?) But dude, this isn't fighting terrorism anymore. Launching cyberattacks against allied nations in peacetime to get data you probably would have gotten when asked? Man, now that's just low. |
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