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06-16-2006, 07:00 AM | #1 |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
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Accountable for your health
Should one accountable for their health?
If you smoke, are overweight (non-biological),drink and drive, etc...should you be charged more for health care.
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
06-16-2006, 07:28 AM | #2 |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: By the shores of cuivinien
Posts: 694
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I think you shouldn't be charged at all for health care!!!!!
That's why big pharma is in the business of getting people sick, so they can get more money; why you think they haven't found a cure for aids yet, because the money is not in the cure, it's in the comeback!!! And the doctors are covering up for them or they are willfully being ignorant, because they get a big fat check for whatever prescription they prescribe from whichever big pharmecuetical company.
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
06-16-2006, 08:29 AM | #3 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
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Agree with your first sentence, Telcontarion, but the rest is dangerously paranoid IMO.
I say dangerously because it misses the ways in which pharma is really distorting health care systems. But that's for another thread (I think there used to be one). Smokers already pay more tax (in this country) because when you buy fags most of the money goes in tax. Around £10bn, or over 10% of the NHS budget. So, I've already paid for my extra health care. It's also rather less than certain that smoking results in increased overall costs to society. Most cost-effectiveness studies I've seen don't take a sufficiently broad perspective to be able to say that for sure. Finally, I would say it's morally wrong: all health care should be based on clinical need, not personal worthiness. |
06-16-2006, 08:36 AM | #4 | |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: By the shores of cuivinien
Posts: 694
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Quote:
__________________
Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
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06-16-2006, 08:59 AM | #5 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
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I did; I still don't get it.
However, you might enjoy this article in this week's British Medical Journal. I particularly liked the quote for former BMJ editor Richard Smith: Quote:
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07-15-2006, 06:51 PM | #6 | ||
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: By the shores of cuivinien
Posts: 694
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Medical conspiracies are fact, not paranoia.
Quote:
Quote:
http://prisonplanet.com/articles/jul...20706Bayer.htm
__________________
Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
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06-18-2006, 10:41 AM | #7 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 301
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Quote:
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06-18-2006, 11:16 AM | #8 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
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..it's like watching mice scurry through a maze.....
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06-18-2006, 12:42 PM | #9 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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With co-pays and taxation of certain substances that are bad for you health, in reality most are "accountable" for what they do.
I'm also for universal healthcare, but I think it should only apply to basic healthcare, normal treatment of disease and injuries, but not multi-million dollar procedures that only extend the life of someone with a basically terminal illness for a few months.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
06-18-2006, 12:59 PM | #10 | |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: By the shores of cuivinien
Posts: 694
|
Quote:
__________________
Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
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06-19-2006, 11:39 AM | #11 | |
Marshal of the Eastmark
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,412
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Quote:
It somehow seems wrong that the chemo and radiation therapies over a 6 month period should cost four times what you'd pay for a house. How could it possibly be that expensive? And if it is, how much IN TOTAL are they racking up from all the insurance companies. And why are the insurance companies letting them? I thought the insurance companies and the pharmaceutical companies in America pretty much run the FDA and set the policies of the AMA. They do it through PACs and the congressman and the president whose campaigns they finance. So I think we the people have little hope of influencing these decisions anyway. There will be no national health care because the insurance companies are somehow making tons of money, though we're not entitled to examine their books. So should people whose behaviors increase the financial burden on the health system pay more? Frankly, I don't think we'll ever have enough real facts to assess this. And there will never be a congressional investigation to open their books, so we're stuck with this. |
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06-19-2006, 12:03 PM | #12 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
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What are PACs?
Insurance is inherently a less efficient way to provide care than taxation. Sure, cancer care can be expensive, and we can't draw the line on "oh well, you're going to snuff it anyway". The survival rate is always 0% if you take a long enough follow-up rate! In terms of public health care: - There are certain things we should always do (e.g. palliative care for the dying) because they are right - There are certain things we should always do (e.g. stuff that improves quality of life but isn't too expensive) - And there are certain things we should never do (e.g. stuff that is so expensive that it effectively deprives others of treatment from limited HC budgets). People should still be free to buy that stuff if they are so inclined. There are always ultra-expensive ways of doing more, the difficult bit is coming up with a rational way of drawing the line under the stuff that's not cost effective. Sir Muir Gray once said "We can have more impact on health and well being by applying what we already know than by any new technology or treatment". That's an important point. I think health inequality is a huge issue worldwide, and is something that all countries need to address. |
06-19-2006, 12:06 PM | #13 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
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AfroElf,
People actually are doing this already if they purchase insurance. Smokers for instance pay a higher rate for health insurance. If you mean in the public square should those who fail to maintain health be charged, good luck. People feel entitled to health care at no cost for some stange reason. And, if you inhibit one form of health coverage due to behaviours, that will open a sticky wicket for all behaviours ... . The best thing is to never get sick.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
06-19-2006, 01:20 PM | #14 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
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Quote:
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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