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12-18-2007, 04:45 AM | #1 | |||||
Lady of the Ulairi
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Images stored on the Palantir HD- the key to find the Ring?
The Palantiri were used for three things
1. Observation 2. Communication between stones 3. Looking in the past It is the third mode (looking in the past) that I propose to discuss. Gandalf says: Quote:
More likely, the only thing possible was to go through the images stored in the Palantir – much like one can go through the image files and video sequences recorded on a computer’s hard disk. Here are the quotes from UT proving that the Palantiri stored images and that the stones were kept in the dark and shrouded to prevent unnecessary images to be stored: Quote:
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The biggest question of the Third Age was the whereabouts of the One Ring. If there was a sequence of Isildur’s last moments recorded by one of the stones, the one who found this sequence would get a HUGE advantage in the search for the One. Isildur fell at the Gladden fields in TA 2. Let us look at the map. The nearest (small) stone is that of Orthanc. The other small stones (Anor, Ithil and Annuminas) are too far away. So the sequence of Isildur’s death could have been recorded either by Orthanc stone or by the bigger stones: Amon Sul and Osgiliath ones. Note this passage in the “Disaster of the Gladden fields”: Quote:
If the stones of Gondor (Osgiliath and/or Orthanc) had recorded the sequence, they had no idea about its importance - as nobody in Gondor seemed to know that Isildur had the Ring. The relationships between Arnor and Gondor quickly deteriorated. And the stone of Osgiliath was lost in 1437. Now let us look at Saruman’s doings: Quote:
And I think he HAS FOUND it recorded in the Orthanc stone. Because who has found Isildur’s body (and Elendilmir with it) in the river? It was Saruman, thousands of years after Isildur’s death and NOT Elrond and Valandil who must have searched the river shortly after the disaster of the Gladden. Also note that Saruman started searching the Gladden about the same time when he got the Orthanc stone - about 2760. Maybe the “bad guys” have figured the importance of the Palantiri for the search of the One as well. The Witch-King sought to capture the Palantir of Amon Sul (1409 and 1974), then got that of Minas Ithil (2002). But this one was of no help. Now it seems that Sauron was able to read much of Saruman’s mind when the latter used his stone. Perhaps he got the idea to search the Gladden from the unsuspecting Saruman? What do you think? ;21 |
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12-18-2007, 07:59 AM | #2 | ||||
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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A most interesting find, Gordis! I completely missed the reference to the Stones storing images.
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Kind of freaky to think that all conversations that happened through the palantir must also have been recorded. Albeit probably without the sound. It certainly reduces the privacy I thought the stones offered. Anyone skill-full enough who uses the stone after you can see who you've been talking to! (Maybe something to remember, Gordis, in relation to the RPG-palantir scenes. ) However if they store only the images received, they should only retain scenes and memories of what somebody was looking at, at a past moment in time. There is nothing to indicate that the palantirs simply recorded scenes happening around them. If, as you suggest, the death scene of Isildur was stored in a memory of the Stones then somebody most have been looking at the time. I'd say this is unlikely. Unless something is specifically said that the Palantiri store other images than those received, do you have a quote like that somewhere? Quote:
Could the 500 miles-limit then only be for observation? It would seem unlikely that a Stone can 'see' less far than it can 'talk'. Perhaps the smaller Stones could bounce off their contact through other Stones to reach farther away Stones? It would also be interesting to know if someone could tap into the memory of another Stone, possibly this would require a viewer at the second Stone and I think this probably was very unlikely, but it is an interesting thought. Quote:
He could have sifted through the recordings, but I doubt he found Isildur's end there, because I still think the recordings needed a comtemporal viewer, and if there had been a viewer, who then should still be Gondorean, then I think more tidings of the end would have been made known and Isildur's body would have been recovered sooner. And as an after-thought, if we look at the 'odd stone out': Quote:
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12-18-2007, 12:55 PM | #3 | ||||||||
Lady of the Ulairi
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And I don't think it strange that at least one stone (likely more) followed Isildur's progress North, checking on the party regularly. Isildur was the High King of Arnor and Gondor, after all! And once a warden saw the fight with Orcs, it was highly unlikely he would get bored and stop looking - would you? The fight lasted for several hours and it has started in daylight, but then the night fell - and a palantir gets no image in darkness. However, weak as it is, there is still some light at night. Much more difficult (if at all possible) is to follow an invisible target. Maybe, ripples on the water from the swimming man could be visible. Or the observer just scanned both banks, when he noticed Isildur reappearing by the west bank? He was visible when they shot him. It is likely that three Palantiri (Orthanc, Osgiliath and Amon Sul) have recorded the fight, but only one warden (from Orthanc) was able to see Isildur's end on the west bank. Quote:
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Sure, out of courtesy, the King should have warned Valandil (Isildur's heir) that the last minutes of his father had been recorded, but it looks like Meneldil was rather hostile to the Northern line almost from the start: Quote:
I’ve just had a wild thought... doesn't the situation with Isildur getting "missing, presumed dead" resemble the situation with Earnur? In the latter case the Stewards were able to rule "until the King returns". Maybe in the former case (from Gondorian POV) the High Kinship was suspended "until Isildur is found" - so Meneldsil was really NOT interested to find the body? Last edited by Gordis : 12-18-2007 at 01:20 PM. |
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12-18-2007, 03:21 PM | #4 | ||||||
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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And even if people were tracking the journey of Isildur, there is nothing to ensure that the Wardens would be looking at the exact time of the attack. Isildur reckoned to take 40 days to reach Imladris. The attack happened 13 days into that journey. As watching the Palantir was tiring work, and since no actual trouble was expected, no Warden would have looked at the King's company for several hours a day. Maybe a short daily check-up at most and the end of the day would not have been a good time for that. Quote:
And regardless of Menedil's feeling towards his uncle, if one of the Southern Wardens did report Isildur's demise to the Gondorean King, one would have expected some report of that in the Gondorean Library. Gandalf makes no mention of it, yet it would have been of vast importance during his search for information about the Ring. Never mind the significance of the Ring, Isildur's death or the attack on his company that led to the death of all its members would have in itself been worthy of mention. Quote:
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12-19-2007, 01:50 PM | #5 | ||||
Lady of the Ulairi
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12-19-2007, 02:38 PM | #6 | |
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12-19-2007, 02:46 PM | #7 | |
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12-21-2007, 03:36 PM | #8 |
Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation
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Just a quick post to say...that's a really cool theory. Albeit the thread title made me laugh a little. HD palantri, what else can we come up with?
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Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan) |
12-21-2007, 05:18 PM | #9 |
Lady of the Ulairi
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Thanks! Well, "HD" is an easy way to explain the method of storage. The difference that I see is that one can erase images from a computer HD when it is full, but not from the Palantir's HD. When the latter starts to get full, the images are recorded at lower resolution.
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12-21-2007, 07:08 PM | #10 |
Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation
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You are aware that "HD" is the common abbreviation for "High-Definition"? Which just makes me chuckle, the idea of a Hi-Def Palantir.
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Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan) |
12-22-2007, 04:09 PM | #11 |
Lady of the Ulairi
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No, I am not... For me HD is "Hard Disk" only.
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