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01-13-2006, 10:54 PM | #1 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
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Star Wars Philosophy
This is a thread for discussion of any aspects of Star Wars philosophy.
Now, I will respond to couple points Rohirrim TR was making in the Theology thread in General Messages. When Obi-Wan said, "Only the Sith deal in absolutes," 1) When Obi-Wan said this, he was responding to Anakin's "you're either with me or against me." He was pretty much saying, "there's always an exception to a rule," or, "there's a lot of gray area," objecting to fanaticism that draws up barriers without attempting to see the other side. He wasn't saying "there's no absolute good," or, "there's no absolute truth." Those weren't what he was talking about at all. In context, he was referring to refusal to see the other side in an argument. 2) Even if he were talking about any form of absolute, this would be somewhat limited to his own world. The Force may not be wholly the same as a perfect, flawless Christian-Judeo God. Perhaps in the Star Wars universe, there aren't any absolutes? I don't know . . . though I don't care for the idea at all.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
01-13-2006, 11:12 PM | #2 | ||
Friendly Neigborhood Sith Lord
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1) thats typical obi-wan, he's always saying things like "it was true from a certain point of view", and kinda waffles sometimes, but "actions speak louder than words" so characteristically Jedi behave as though they believe in absolutes of good and evil, and honor and chivalry, (they are knights after all). where as the sith behave as if good and evil were the same remeber palps "from another(the sith) point of view the jedi are evil" using obi-wans own words against him causing anakins fall. in the whole absolute debate the jedi are a bit muddlled i.e. saying one thing, behaving differently, these inconsistencies may have led to anakin's fall.
2)obviously the force isn't God, think about it: pure energy that can only be accessed by some, very dissimilar to my view of God. it does bring up the question of where do the jedi get their values? I don't see how the force would really contribute to that.
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01-13-2006, 11:38 PM | #3 | |
Elf Lord
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So this is kind of a "godly" perspective. An ultimate good with what could be termed "fallen angels" throwing things out of balance.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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01-14-2006, 12:16 AM | #4 | ||
Friendly Neigborhood Sith Lord
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whoa time warp, it says you posted that last post yesterday, freaky.
well those are some good points, and it would provide an answer to why the jedi believe in knightly standards. as to if there are absolutes in the SW universe it seems an obvious yes to me, you can't really have a battle between good and evil without having some semblance of absolutes, at the very least you could say that "freedom good, tyranny bad" could be the absolute that comes through most strongly, although there are others there as well.
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I was Press Secretary for the Berlioz administration and also, but not limited to, owner and co operator of fully armed and operational battle station EDDIE Quote:
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01-14-2006, 07:28 AM | #5 | |
Elven Warrior
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So do all who see such times, but that is not for us to decide, all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us Gandalf And what happened to the rest of your party, killed, eaten, gone home? Beorn, The Hobbit Dark and difficult Times lie ahead Harry, soon we must all face a choice, a choice between what is right and what is easy! Dumbledore Neo Are you listening to Me? Or are you too busy looking at the Woman in the Red Dress? Morpheus, The Matrix |
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01-14-2006, 11:49 AM | #6 |
Elf Lord
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Do you guys know how to spot Roman Catholics and Anglicans at a Star Wars flick?
It's easy. Whenever anyone says, "The force be with you," they are the folks who say, . . . . . . . . . . "And also with you!"
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
01-14-2006, 12:07 PM | #7 | ||
Elf Lord
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Then, we can also know that eliminating the Dark Side users brings the Force back into balance (According to Mace Windu in Episode 3). This assumes that good is the norm for the Force, something that also implied in the fact that the "light side" of the Force is never mentioned. It is assumed that the Force is naturally light, and any darkness is an aberration and an imbalance. Quote:
So we have the Force being thrown out of balance by evil, which means the normal state of the Force is good, and we also have it personal, intelligent and eager to communicate. This begins to look very much like a pure, holy, personal and intelligent deity. The Dark Side of the Force is abuse of something good, rather than a natural state of things. I think . This is the only conclusion I can draw that makes sense, in view of the evidence, at this time.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 01-14-2006 at 07:21 PM. |
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01-14-2006, 06:39 PM | #8 | |
Elf Lord
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05-13-2010, 09:33 AM | #9 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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Wookipedia is awesome! :-D
And speaking of different views on the force, many authors have treated it very differently. In Greg Bear's "Rogue Planet," we get the constant injunction that the Force is "not a nursemaid." I always remember that somehow whenever I try to use the Force .
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03-03-2014, 04:48 PM | #10 |
AngAdan
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Regarding Dark Side/"Light Side"/balance in the force, consider a quote of ERU, in my signature.
"And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me," Verily, the Dark side is an integral part of the force, which can never be banished, only managed. The recurring blindness of the the "light Side" Jedi to machinations on the dark side, when any 11 year old SCi Fi or even a wargaming fan could do an Admiral Ackbar and see the obvious traps and plots, is because they try to obliterate and banish the Dark Side, and are oblivious to it, rather than carefully watching it both within and without themselves.
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Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me," Last edited by Lefty Scaevola : 03-03-2014 at 04:56 PM. |
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