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10-27-2005, 12:43 AM | #1 | ||
Elf Lord
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The Iran Nuclear Controversy
Something new has happened in the Iran nuclear controversy that I felt like bringing up. Discussion of the nuclear controversy can be done in this thread, as well as other discussion of the Iranian state, its politics and such.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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10-27-2005, 04:43 AM | #2 |
Elf Lord
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OK now imagine you are Iran.
In 1979 you overthrew a monarchy which you regarded as oppressing your religion and betraying its people. You fall out publicly with the US, the major supporter of the monarchy. In 198? your next-door neighbour attacked, with the support of the US and other allies of your former monarch. There followed a protracted war in which hundreds of thousands, if not millions, died. In 2003, this neighbour, by now out of favour with the West, is invaded by the US and its allies under a false pretext. Now they have hundreds of thousands of their troops, with the most advanced weapons in the world, positioned right next to you (think Russia and China combining to invade Mexico). Meanwhile, the US President branded you as one of the bastions of an "axis of evil". He spouts endless rhetoric about being at war, and refuses to rule out invading you just because you might have WMDs or something. Meanwhile meanwhile, North Korea, also part of this axis, GETS nuclear weapons. Everything goes quiet: the US stops threatening to invade them. If I was Iranian, I would want nukes YESTERDAY. Last edited by The Gaffer : 10-27-2005 at 04:44 AM. |
10-27-2005, 06:57 AM | #3 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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You wouldn't need them if you stopped threatening your neighbors, permitted UN inspection of the facilities, permitted more human rights in your country, etc. etc. etc. but hey, facts don't matter to some
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10-27-2005, 08:43 AM | #4 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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10-27-2005, 10:24 AM | #5 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Do you forget the American Embassy Hostage episode? Our bed may be there but that doesn't mean we want to build a development. sometimes answering you with metaphors is most challenging.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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10-27-2005, 11:17 AM | #6 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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the first step is admitting the fact that both sides do wrong... frequently
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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10-27-2005, 11:20 AM | #7 |
The Black Númenórean
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Nope, I haven't forgotten. Nor has anyone else, though for most that I know, its regretted.
If America is really scared shitless of these guys, why don’t the unilaterally slap an embargo on them, no oil goes in or out? They didn’t need UN permission to go to war.... That’s the only thing these Mother f-ers got going for them, in six months to a year, mullahs will be collapsed and gone. No oil= no cash= no power. Worked on Mosadeq, who was elected by the people and who actually built a functioning democracy (British style, with a parliament). Why does America and other countries keep buying oil from these jokers, who are sworn enemies...axis of evil....blah blah...when that money isn’t going anywhere but to weapons funding? Y'know, I really would like an embargo, it will hurt me and my family and Iran in general, but we can survive and sort our own. And it will be infinitely better than what we got now. HOWEVER, that is highly unlikely to happen, as is America invading Iran. Though, the latter is more likely than the former, and I don’t give a damn whether its rocks or nukes, I see anyone coming into my home, and making a mess, setting up a puppet government, I am going to kill them. And die myself more than likely. But I wont be the first, nor last.
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Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love but not your thoughts, For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams. Last edited by Spock : 10-27-2005 at 11:48 AM. |
10-27-2005, 10:01 AM | #8 | |
Elf Lord
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10-27-2005, 10:23 AM | #9 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Last edited by Spock : 10-28-2005 at 10:43 AM. |
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10-27-2005, 02:33 PM | #10 | |
Elf Lord
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Last Sane Person:
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Last edited by Spock : 10-27-2005 at 02:35 PM. Reason: baiting |
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05-04-2006, 12:41 PM | #11 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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Discussing Iran
All right then.
Iran Iran Iran...they want (at least the government) Israel off the map. And they've caught us in an uncomfortable position, if we move against their nuclear program[s], Israel gets hurt. Three Questions: 1) What good is the UN doing? The thing about the UN's "threats" and "calls" for countries to straighten out, is that they are not threatening to do something, but to do something to get ready to do something. 2) Will Iran continue to say that it's nuclear program is for energy efficiency, or do [or will] they find it safe now to reveal their malicious intent? 3) Obviously, the U.S. already has a load on its hands with Iraq, so if push comes to shove with Iran, will European governments hark to the call this time? It's not something we can't see this time, like WMD's, Israel and the Muslim countries have been cooking for a long time, and Iran with Ahmudinejad is nothing to ignore and let be.
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05-04-2006, 12:50 PM | #12 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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This is what I fear:
The UN will prove useless as it has in the past. The US is overextended. Israel cannot be restrained for long given the fact it is being threatened with extinction every week by the current leadership of Iran. 2012 is the end of the world according to many prophesies....this may well be the start. |
05-04-2006, 01:17 PM | #13 |
Elf Lord
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1) The UN, while largely impotent, is the best UN we've got and the only way to get the Russians and Chinese on board.
2) They will keep it secret as long as they can, ideally until they've got nukes. 3) Depends which call. I don't see them joining an invasion but they might support air strikes. My guess it that Israel would bomb any installations the minute they get wind of where they are. (Probably from US intelligence; the US restrains Israel in the same way that a security guard restrains his dog.) That may well lead down the road to outright warfare. However, I think that the anti-Israel stuff is mostly for domestic political propaganda. There are very good strategic reasons why Iran would want nuclear weapons (being surrounded by countries that have got 'em for a start) but I don't think they'd actually use them in a first strike against Israel. Just like I didn't think the Soviet Union would have used them against the West. |
05-04-2006, 01:26 PM | #14 | |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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Though Iran should realize, that they join the rank of countries (if it really is because they are afraid of the countries with Nucular Power)...and are now part of the scaring process for scaring even more countries...Oh the merry-go-round.
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05-04-2006, 01:41 PM | #15 |
Elf Lord
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Well, they are probably not a little scared too, having just had the most powerful nation in the world invade next door and declare them Public Enemy No 1.
And of course you can't discuss the Middle East without discussing oil. |
05-04-2006, 02:07 PM | #16 | |||
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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05-04-2006, 02:13 PM | #17 | |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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If Iraq had WMDs, and we hadn't invaded them... we might be looking at our ashened skeletal feet instead of computer screens. But you never know when...thats always how it is with terrorists. I really don't think the past can help us now...but one 9/11 was enough for us. Edit: Let's stay on Iran as subject...
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05-04-2006, 03:10 PM | #18 |
Advocatus Diaboli
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If we should stay on the subject of Iran, then the terrorists who were responsible for 9/11 aren't "on topic" either.
We have to start thinking about global conflicts within their own context and take off the "everyone is a terrorist" blinders.
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05-04-2006, 03:19 PM | #19 | |
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