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03-10-2006, 04:51 PM | #1 |
of the House of Fëanor
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Why Pippin says 'gollum, gollum' to Grishnakh
This question arises fromthe chapter The Urukhai, out of The Two Towers. I have always wondered about it, and it occurred to me the other day to mention it in the Teacup Cafe - and then stuff happened, and I didn't get a chance to make this thread until now. I had some of you ask me to make the thread, so I guess I'm not the only one around here who has wondered about this!
FOCUS: How is it that Pippin knows to say "gollum, gollum," when he & Merry are being held captive by Grishnakh and Orcish company? Grishnakh gets pissed at Pippin, and he says to them, "Have you got it -either of you?" presumably, of course, Grishnahk was referring to the One Ring, and Pippin gets it in his head to mumble "gollum, gollum," followed by 'Nothing, my precious.' I swear I never remembered those two hobbits ever having been exposed to Smeagol/Gollum before, aside from hearing stories from Bilbo, so how would Pip even know that that was Smeagol/Gollum's weird Ring-having/wanting catchphrase? OH! And why would Pippin even WANT to tease Grishnakh in the first place. How did Pip even know to say things in the manner of Smeagol, and why would he even want to push Grishnakh's buttons, anyway? Was it something eLSE making him say that? Some weird thought-force from a certain Maia, or - or something?
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03-10-2006, 04:58 PM | #2 |
of the House of Bëor
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And HERE the thread is!
As for how he knows it, I think peeking into the Red Book plus Sam's account of the Council. But why it came to his mind? I don't know. It was a dangerous game to play. They couldn't know how Grishnakh would react... *ponders*
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03-10-2006, 05:00 PM | #3 |
of the House of Fëanor
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BUT - does the Red Book even mention the 'gollum' noise in the throat that Gollum liked to do?
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Few people have the imagination for reality.
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03-11-2006, 07:09 AM | #4 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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I'm not sure that the Red Book would have told Pippin much of the truth anyway. Remember Bilbo's words at the Council.
"I will now tell you all the truth. Not what I wrote in my book or told others." Or something along those lines.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
03-11-2006, 08:43 AM | #5 |
of the House of Bëor
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True; he didn't write the truth in his book...
But I can imagine that Pip and Merry didn't leave Sam alone until he told everything he had heard at the Council...
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03-11-2006, 10:37 AM | #6 |
Lady of the Ulairi
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Lotesse is right, it does seem curious. Of course, Bilbo might have told his story over and over again to everyone in the Shire, including young Pip, but still it is not like personal experience.
And how could Pippin know that Grishnakh had ever met Gollum and would recognise the "gollum" thing? Last edited by Gordis : 03-11-2006 at 01:26 PM. Reason: Grishnakh, not Ugluk, silly me. |
03-12-2006, 05:34 AM | #7 | |||
Co-President of Entmoot
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This is definitely curious.
Quote:
Didn't Frodo know about that? As to how he thought of it, I guess clever old Pippin was inspired.
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03-30-2006, 04:08 PM | #8 | ||
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Quote:
The Red Book, at least in part, is more or less representative of The Hobbit, so that I think most of what was in said Hobbit would be in the Red Book. Of course, one must keep in mind the matter of the original Hobbit. Quote:
As Forkbeard says, QED.
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05-11-2006, 11:55 AM | #9 |
Marshal of the Eastmark
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I agree. When Merry and Pippin catch up to Sam and Frodo, it is revealed that Sam was spying for quite some time and telling Merry and Pippin about the discussions between Frodo and Gandalf. I'd have to look in the books which are at home, but Pippin knew about Gollum and the Ring from very early on.
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03-11-2006, 11:05 PM | #10 | |
Elven Warrior
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