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05-01-2005, 11:34 AM | #1 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 455
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What actually happened when the WC drove Sauron from Dol Guldur?
"... and they put forth their strength; and they asssailed Dol Guldur, and drove Sauron from his hold ..."
I've always wondered what actually happened here. What was the White Council's strength that was put forth, was it primarily (or only) the wizards and lords of the Eldar or were armies of footsoldiers involved, to? Were men or dwarves involved? And what actually happened at the "assailing?" We know that, from Sauon's perspective, the assault was expected and even encouraged so as to divert the White Council's attention from Mordor where, indeed, Sauron had already dispatched the Nine before the assault to prepare Barad-dur for his arrival. So, who or what remained with Sauron in Dol Guldur at the time that the White Council would have had to assail along with Sauron? Orcs? Trolls? Evil men? No one? |
05-01-2005, 03:51 PM | #2 | ||
Lady of the Ulairi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 2,783
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A very interesting question, Jon S.!
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As for the nazgul, they were in Minas Morgul for 1000 years already. As I have tried to point out in the thread "Were the Nazgul free from Sauron..." they were not yet serving Sauron, instead they were hiding from him in M. Morgul. You may agree with it or not, but that is sure that at least they had not bothered to prepare Barad Dur for Sauron's arrival . He had to take care of it himself. |
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05-02-2005, 08:14 AM | #3 | ||
Enting
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 54
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Quote:
Quote:
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05-02-2005, 10:10 AM | #4 |
Lady of the Ulairi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 2,783
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Thank you for the quote, Maerbenn. Yes, I was wrong about trolls.
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05-02-2005, 10:48 PM | #5 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: LI-woods, NY
Posts: 653
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Quote:
“It was by devices of Saruman that we drove him from Dol Guldur.” (FOTR. BookII, chapt.II).I think he was elected by the White Council as parlamentarian to convince Sauron "to move out for his own good". Besides, Sauron was not “driven out”, as the White Council wanted to make believe, but just unhurriedly retreated according with his own plans: “Sauron having made his plans abandons Dol Guldur “(“LOTR“, App.B) As who remained in Dol -Guldur after Sauron's withdrawal... I think the same garrison which was stationed over there, because the fortress was left untouched and has never been leveled to the ground, as Elendil did to the Dark Tower. It woun’t surprise me if the Elves even had repaired it a little bit to make it ready for the next tenants- the Nazgul ! |
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05-03-2005, 01:30 PM | #6 |
Lady of the Ulairi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 2,783
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Good points, Olmer. The only thing, "abandoned" means that there was nobody left in DG after Sauron's retreat. And there is a matching entry in the Tale of Years for 2951 "Sauron sends three of the Nazgûl to reoccupy Dol Guldur." So between 2944 and 2951 DG was empty. Yes, the Elves could demolish it (if they wanted to), but they didn't. Perhaps there WAS a treaty with the Necromancer.
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05-03-2005, 03:12 PM | #7 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,651
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Or perhaps they still feared to enter it. Remember men still feared to enter Minas Morgul after Sauron was defeathed. IMO it's the same kind of thing, they were still in fear of some lingering sorcery or something of that sort.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
05-04-2005, 04:08 AM | #8 |
Lady of the Ulairi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 2,783
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Yes, but they were MEN.
As for the White counsil, they surely could destroy empty Dol Guldur as Galadriel did later, after the final victory: "Celeborn came forth and led the host of Lórien over Anduin in many boats. They took Dol Guldur, and Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits, and the forest was cleansed." Dol Guldur, unlike Barad Dur, was not built with the help of the One, as in the Second Age it was an elvish fortress, and in the third age Sauron had no ring. Actually the White counsil did not use the opportunity to destroy DG twice, as in 2063 Sauron ran away from Gandalf and DG was deserted for 400 years, called The Watchful Peace. No, there was something more to Necromancer -White Counsil relations than the Elves wanted others to believe. |
05-04-2005, 11:28 AM | #9 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,651
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Also how could the Council be sure it was emptied, which I doubt. For all they knew some or all of the Nazgûl could still be there, along with a mighty horde of Orcs and trolls, they had no way of knowing.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
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