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10-01-2004, 02:49 AM | #1 | |
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The Early Work of the Nine Rings
From the portion in 'Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age':
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Here are some partial answers I myself would give: 1. I only just noticed about how they could be invisible at will. I take it then that they didn't necessarily become invisible when wearing their rings. This may spark controversy, because there are some HoMe sections about a person's spirit, etc - but I have wondered at times if the One Ring made people invisible only because Isildur had commanded it to make him invisible when he put it on at the Gladden Fields. It was then sort of 'stuck' in that mode of causing invisibility. Subsequent wearers either didn't have the will to reverse that or it never occured to them that they could. Isildur could have known about the abilities granted to the Nine some 1500 years before - and might have been unconcerned about using the One himself, because 'Sauron was dead... (right?)' 2. We can only speculate, but things were probably great at first, then fell into ruin. However, that may have taken centuries. The Nine probably outlived their direct heirs... and as they turned more and more evil may have intentionally eliminated them. Early on, probably nine rival but somewhat aligned countries, rising to prominence over the other Men of Middle-earth... but then fading and falling... leaving chaos in their wake. 3. There are two traits which seem to determine how readily each ringbearer became a wraith: native strength and the good or evil in their wills. I take it that those who were stronger and those who were good would resist longer. So... the first to succumb would be the weaker ones who were already inclined to evil (they were partly there... evil-wise, and had less resistance to being dominated), next either those who were stronger and evil or weaker and had tried to do good... last of all, those who were strong-minded but of good intentions. 4. Somewhat twisted version of when they became wraiths. I suggest that those who were strong and who had been originally inclined toward evil would have made the strongest wraiths... probably the Witch-King and Khamul fell into this category. Next would be those who were weaker-willed, but had been inclined to evil. Third would be those who were weaker-willed, but had been initially inclined to do good... what they had become would cut against their grain. Weakest of all might have been those last to fall... those who were strong-minded and who had been inclined to do good. For... their own ring, and Sauron and his One, would have totally broken them... they might weakly follow commands - and sure - in so doing would have still had the power of a ring-wraith, but could probably do absolutely nothing on their own. Feedback?
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10-01-2004, 11:48 AM | #2 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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For number 4 I'd say that some were stronger, more powerful men who'd becmoe corrupted.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
10-01-2004, 03:06 PM | #3 | ||
Elf Lord
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I found an interesting discrepancies in the dated of the Numenorian Kings. I suspect that some of the Nazguls had carried well known names. Unfortunately, I don’t have time for the deep search on such intriguing subject. |
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10-01-2004, 03:21 PM | #4 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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interesting... i like your speculations... one thing though
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10-01-2004, 03:39 PM | #5 | |
Elf Lord
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So it's imply that they could make themselves invisible or visible even without the rings. |
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10-01-2004, 03:43 PM | #6 |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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I think in their wraith state, they simply WERE invisible. Frodo only began to see them as they were (without the Ring on) because he was perilously close to becoming a wraith himself.
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10-01-2004, 04:33 PM | #7 |
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It seems that the invisibility that the Nine conferred, no matter how they did it, was their most prized power. Spying on enemies and one's own courtiers, hearing what the commoners were really thinking, perhaps even sneaking into certain silken boudoirs unaware. Hey, they were evil. The seeing things in the wriath world seems more problematic.
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10-01-2004, 07:56 PM | #8 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Quote:
one interesting sidenote... how about the morgul blade? it was stated as starting to make frodo fade, and if it reached the heart... it would have immediately... possibly another creation of sauron's similar to the rings?
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10-03-2004, 10:25 AM | #9 |
Elven Loremaster
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Sauron did not take back the Nine Rings until late in the Third Age. When the Men who possessed the Rings were originally using them, they may or may not have had the ability to control their own visibility while wearing the Rings. We have too little information about the Rings to know what their mortal keepers could do.
The One Ring, in the hands of Hobbits, was another matter altogether. It was far more powerful than the other Rings and may have had a will of its own. |
10-04-2004, 04:38 PM | #10 | ||
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Given, say, Naz1 and Naz2, where their native powers are approx. equal, but Naz1 tends towards evil and Naz2 is still "inclined to do good" when they get the preciousss ringses ... I see what you're saying, how the one that's inclined to do good would fight it longer, and thus might be more "broken" and weaker than the one that didn't spend energy fighting the evil. [Mr. Spock voice]Interesting ... [/end Mr. Spock voice] Quote:
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10-04-2004, 04:49 PM | #11 | ||
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10-04-2004, 04:54 PM | #12 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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12-05-2004, 07:50 PM | #13 |
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1. i think that the powers granted to the 9 Mortal Men, were not unlike those given to Frodo, Bilbo, Isildur or Sauron via the One Ring, except the powers were not as um.....powerful
2. Most likely at the beginning when they had just recieved the rings, their kingdoms grew in size, and thye ruled justly, but as the rings gained power over them, their kingdoms spiraled down into a dark pit 3. Most likely the Witch King of Angmar went in first, because he was an evil-dude to begin with, so he didn't need much urging, and then we don't ever really learn the names of the other Kings, so we can't tell 4. Probably whoever had the largest kingdom at the time of his entrance into the service of Sauron, either that or whoever had killed more innocents during his reign |
12-06-2004, 11:20 AM | #14 | |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
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