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05-04-2005, 12:11 PM | #1 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
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King Arthur legendaria and Harry Potter
Many folks have an interest in King Arthur. I have been struck at times by the apparent influence of the Arthurian elements in the HP series. Particularly the SWORD IN THE STONE motif, the orphan status motif, the wise owl motif, and the adversity elements.
If interest is adequate, I am sure that other Mooters know much more about this and can expose other items of influence and correlation. Then we can perhaps speculate on the ending of HP in that mode.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
05-06-2005, 01:20 AM | #2 |
Slacker
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That's an interesting theory. Unfortunately, I'm not very learned in Arthurian lore. I would be interested in reading what other 'mooters had to say about it, though.
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05-09-2005, 01:57 PM | #3 |
Lady of Letters
Join Date: Jan 2002
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The Arthurian legends do seem to have an influence on HP, probably because they're the best-known source of the archetypes you mentioned - Merlin/Dumbledore etc. I wonder if 'Dumbledore's Army' will become a kind of Round Table at Hogwarts? I hope it doesn't bode ill for Harry, though.
He should name his wand Excalibur
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
05-09-2005, 03:04 PM | #4 | ||
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References to the legendaria have already been made, to Merlin as a great wizard who seems to have influenced wizarding culture. ("By Merlin's beard!" and the Order of Merlin.)
I never thought of Dumbledore's Army as a sort of Round Table, but it is a good analogy I think. This would make Harry a King Arthur figure, which is also strengthened by the orphan thing. One place where this falls down is Arthur's adopted family and the Dursley's. Vernon would not be Sir Ector, and Dudley would not be Sir Kay. There also is not equivelant to Mordred in Potterverse. As of yet, I also don't see a Guenevere equivelant. (Though there are future possibilities. *romantic sigh*) We can make comparisons to Arthur's knights and Harry's best friends. Who do you see lining up? I can see Ron as Kay or Gawain, and Hermione as Bedwyr/Bedevere. I can also see Neville as Bedwyr, and I could see Hermione as Kay. (Actually, it's very hard to line people up here. Hrm.) Sir Kay is Arthur's adopted brother and one of his best friends, and most loyal knights. He is Arthur's Seneschal - in other words, his right hand man. I think Ron and Harry are like brothers in a similar sense to Kay and Arthur - Harry's real family is dead, and the Weasley's adopted him. The Dursleys, despite Petunia's important WRT the protection spell, simply do not act like a real family. Ron as Gawain, well, this is simply because Gawain is often written as being quick-tempered, and having red hair. Not much to go on, and plus, Arthur is technically Gawain's uncle, even though they're pretty much the same age. (Arthur has a much-older half-sister, as you know.) The reason I think Hermione could also be Kay is because he is very intelligent. He's probably the smartest knight, or at least, he has to draw on his brains the most in his capacity as Seneschal. One of his duties (they aren't always elaborated in the books), is dealing with the logistics of supplying Arthur's armies. From the little I know of logistics, this is mind-bendingly complex and hideous. (Logistics in forestry are less evil, but they certainly gave me an insight. *shudders*) After my geeky analysis, I realize I have left out Lancelot. I often leave him out accidentally because I don't really understand his character, and apparently he was added to the legends later. However, he is a major player later. I can't think of anyone to parallel Lancelot, because I can't think of anyone who would betray Harry. Other betraying knights include Mordred, Agravaine, and Gaheris (I think). Other important loyal knights include Gareth, Bors, Galahad, Pellinore, Percivale, Leodegrance, and some other people who's names escape me. It also depends a lot on what books you read. My post was based on all the ones I've read - attempting to knit together some common themes. We need Valandil in here - he's the Arthurian Legends expert. Very cool thread Inked!
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05-09-2005, 03:09 PM | #5 | |
Lady of Letters
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Quote:
Maybe we don't know enough about anyone except Ron and Hermione to see how they would match up. Also, the battle with Voldemort is very different to the battles Arthur fought, and Draco, Lucius and the Death Eaters don't really fit in either. Although, how about Arthur Weasley rather than Harry as the Arthur figure?
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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05-09-2005, 04:51 PM | #6 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
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Old Merlin had sense to hide young king
That right honest and humble he up-bring To manliness, who would be king! SWORD IN STONE? That whole thing! Sword in hat per JK Rowling! Gryffin - d'or, heart of God-King, With rubies eggs, excellent thing!
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |