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12-11-2003, 11:58 AM | #1 |
Elven Warrior
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Gandalf vs. the Nazgul at Amon Sul
In a (now closed) thread on the movies forum, I made reference to Gandalf's battle with the Nine at Weathertop. Jerseydevil commented that the text is ambiguous on whether all Nine were actually present. Upon review of the relevent passages in The Council of Elrond, I find that he is correct that Gandalf does not explicitly say that he battles all Nine. However, my opinion is that immediately following statements referring to the folly of seeking Frodo in the Wild with all the Nine at his heels, and the fact that Gandalf drew off four leaving only five to attack the camp on 6 October, strongly implies that all Nine were present at Amon Sul on 3 October.
Thoughts?
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12-11-2003, 02:04 PM | #2 |
Cyber Elf Lord
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Will need to re-read relavent sections later tonight.
One possiblilty: If some of the black riders found Gandalf @ Amon Sul they may have rounded up the others, thinking that Gandalf would travel with Frodo and the ring would be found nearby. By the time Gandalf left weathertop, all nine gathered around Amon Sul and were at his heels. (just a thought)
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Sincerely, Anthony 'Many are my names in many countries,' he said. 'Mithrandir among the Elves, Tharkûn to the Drarves; Olórin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, in the South Incánus, in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not.' Faramir What nobler employment, or more valuable to the state, than that of the man who instructs the rising generation? Cicero (106BC-43BC) |
12-11-2003, 03:48 PM | #3 | |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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Quote:
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. Last edited by Attalus : 12-11-2003 at 03:50 PM. |
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12-11-2003, 06:10 PM | #4 | ||
Elven Warrior
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Quote:
IIRC some people like to quote Gandalf to Denethor on the WK: Quote:
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12-11-2003, 07:32 PM | #5 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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Ah, another grenade to avoid. There should be an official sticky, perhaps called "Bones of Contention."
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
12-11-2003, 07:48 PM | #6 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Since I was the one that brought this arguement up. I will state my views.
Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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12-12-2003, 12:07 AM | #7 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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I really don't feel that more than one or two of them had that much will. That would be the Witch-King and Khamul.
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
12-12-2003, 12:10 AM | #8 |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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That would be Khamûl, the Terror of the East.
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
12-12-2003, 09:31 PM | #9 |
The Insufferable
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The impression I got of the matter was this: That gandalf fought the assembled nine, and escaped, and that only half of them followed him while the rest stayed and watched Amon Sul. These were the five that Frodo and co. were attacked by.
The other four lost Gandalf at some point, and broke off to stand guard over the last bridge. Glorfindel came and forced them away, so they fell back to the fords of rivendell, which was where they were when the company (pursued by the remaining five) came upon them.
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12-12-2003, 09:32 PM | #10 | |
Cyber Elf Lord
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Quote:
FOTR: The Council of Elrond (p259 from 1 vol. book Printed by Houghton Mifflin Co.) I agree with you and think the text would imply that Gandalf faced all nine at Amon Sul. It seems that Gandalf could hold his own for a while against the nine.
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Sincerely, Anthony 'Many are my names in many countries,' he said. 'Mithrandir among the Elves, Tharkûn to the Drarves; Olórin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, in the South Incánus, in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not.' Faramir What nobler employment, or more valuable to the state, than that of the man who instructs the rising generation? Cicero (106BC-43BC) Last edited by mithrand1r : 12-12-2003 at 09:35 PM. |
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12-13-2003, 01:06 AM | #11 | |
High King of Númenórë
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
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12-13-2003, 04:05 PM | #12 | |
Swan-Knight of Dol Amroth
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Quote:
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"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Urn Burial. |
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