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04-03-2018, 02:11 AM | #1 |
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Gondor's Kin-Strife: Did anyone else take sides?
Gondor's Kin-strife of the 15th Century, Third Age, had its origins in the mid-13th Century (TA) marriage of an eventual heir to Gondor's throne with a princess from an outlying tribe. Their "half-breed" son, Eldacar, came to the throne of Gondor at the death of his father Valacar in 1432. Open rebellion had begun in the southern parts of Gondor even at the end of Valacar's reign, and Civil War began immediately at the succession - led by Eldacar's second cousin, Castamir - who was Captain of the Ships and had his stronghold at Pelargir.
Castamir's forces moved northward and beseiged Osgiliath, finally taking it - and burning it - five years later in 1437. Eldacar fled, but his eldest son was taken and executed. The Tower of Osgiliath was destroyed in the fire (it was on the Bridge of Osgiliath) and the chief palantir of the South fell into Anduin. Ten years later, in 1447, Eldacar had gathered an army of northern folk of Gondor as well as Northmen of Rhovanion (his mother's people) and drove southward, retaking Osgiliath, for the people had grown weary of Castamir. Eldacar slew Castamir himself at the Crossings of Erui, and pursued his army to Pelargir, but could not take the city. The following year, Castamir's sons sailed with their remaining forces from Pelargir to Umbar. In this time, I wonder, what did the other kingdoms and peoples of Middle Earth do? Did some side with or support one claimant or the other? Or did they all just leave it for Gondor to work out? Here are some who come to mind:
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04-05-2018, 02:22 AM | #2 |
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Were there already Men living along the Long Lake? Were the Dwarves not in Erebor or the Iron Hills in any numbers? The Men of the Long Lake and of Dale at the end of the Third Age were akin to the Beornings and the Éothéod, and so also to the folk of Rhovanion, ancestors of the Éothéod. In any case, the Men of Rhovanion were central to Eldacar’s return to power; but perhaps Men in the region were not yet divided into the separate groups we see during the War of the Ring.
Arthedain and Cardolan had stakes in the outcome of the Kin Strife in Gondor because of the civil war in Eriador. Although the Dúnedain were extinct in Rhudaur with Angmar the real power in that province, Rhudaur nevertheless pressed its claim for possession of Amon Sûl. The primary effect of the Dúnedain civil war in Eriador was likely to have fired any wicked imaginations of civil war among the Dúnedain in Gondor. The stakes of the Northern Dúnedain among their Southern cousins was that the wiser and more forward-thinking among them both must slowly have begun to realize that there was some common, malicious power working against them in Middle-earth. There was no alliance for another five hundred years, until the year 1940, leading to the marriage of Arvedui crown prince of Arthedain and F*riel daughter of Ondoher King of Gondor, but surely some of the Dúnedain in both realms had begun to wonder if there was not some common denominator behind the afflictions of the two kingdoms in exile, particularly since civil wars beset them both. Lindon and Rivendell were involved in the Dúnedain civil wars in Eriador. They did not interfere with the Dúnedain and other Men, but they did intervene when Angmar attacked. It seems as if they understood that Angmar was a different kind of opponent; or perhaps this is early but indirect (and inconclusive) evidence of intercession by the Istari, urging them to the attack. In any case, Elves seemed to have practiced a policy of neutrality in conflicts of Men against other Men, unless one side was in open alliance with some power allied (or suspected of alliance) with Sauron. The Elves of Edhellond do not seem to have been very numerous. I think this was just a point of departure: there no mention of a C*rdan-like figure there to direct ship-building or boarding. Had the Princes of Dol Amroth allied with Castamir, I believe Eldacar or one of his successors would have relieved them of their ancestral holdings. That was the practice in England, France, Burgundy, and among the Byzantines: in fact, it has been the practice of regents down through history to deprive rebel nobles of their titles and fiefs. Tolkien says the rebels were centered in Pelargir, Castamir’s base of power, and when Eldacar and his allies pressed a siege upon them, they sailed away to Umbar, making that their base of operations. From 1050 when Hyarmendacil conquered Umbar until Castamir’s sons and followers sailed to the old Númenórean fortress in 1448, Gondor had controlled the old capital of colonial Númenor; they did not again control it until Elessar received their homage after the War of the Ring, and even then, I don’t believe they occupied it as before. But about the Istari: There is no mention of the Wizards intervening in the internecine wars of the Dúnedain, North or South. I suspect they did; and it seems Bombadil did, too, particularly on the part of the Dúnedain of Cardolan. But “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence,” as the saying goes, though it must be applied judiciously. We’ve no mention of other actions by the Istari through this gap, either, though in the thread “Saruman: The first 1760 years...” I’ve suggested the Blue Wizards might have short-circuited a timely attack by the Easterlings during the Kin Strife; but there is no proof. It is easy to imagine Gandalf on the sidelines encouraging the Eldar of Rivendell and Lindon to intervene in the war against Angmar, and in urging the Dúnedain of old Arnor to more vigilance and preparation: part of his reputation might rest upon such admonitions; but there is no published evidence for that, either. By the same token, it is possible that Galadriel directly or indirectly assisted Eldacar in his exile: Rhovanion was her near neighbor on the other shore of Anduin, and Lórien had strategic reasons for wanting a strong Gondor both morally and militarily: while Castamir might have been strong militarily, his ethics and morals (not necessarily his sexual morals, but his actions and reasoning) were foul: he murdered Eldacar’s son and heir, and he deliberately ruined the beautiful Númenórean capital Osgiliath, losing its irreplaceable palant*r in the process. The Dwarves of Khazad-dûm were unlikely to intervene in the wars of Men other than by providing weapons and possibly military construction or advice; but there is no evidence of that, either. The published evidence seems silent on the point; but surely the Eldar intervened, though discretely. Gandalf and Radagast seem to have been in the area of the fighting: surely they, too, intervened in some way. Saruman might still have been in the East, but were he in the west of Middle-earth, I cannot see him not taking sides one way or another. (Again, that might account for some of his later reputation.) The two Dúnedain kingdoms were each under too much pressure separately to interfere in one another’s civil wars. Angmar was clearly engaged against splintered Arnor, though. Dol Guldur was surely engaged, too, but quietly and surreptitiously: it would not do for Sauron to draw undue attention to his hiding place. Rhovanion is not far from Thranduil’s realm, either: it is possible he might have helped Eldacar and the Northmen, but there is no textual evidence for that, either, as far as I can tell. No evidence outside Eldacar’s alliance with Rhovanion, as far as we can prove, it seems. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t so, and it doesn’t mean I haven’t overlooked something. Because it sure seems like someone – the Eldar and the Istari in particular – would prefer one outcome over another. |
04-05-2018, 08:53 AM | #3 |
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Thanks for the comments Alcuin. Three or four things I want to respond to.
I don't know if Tolkien tells us anywhere about the Men of Long Lake or Dale in this middle part of the Third Age. I suspect they likely originated from other scattered elements of the tribes of Rhovanion - so those places might have been founded around the time the Eotheod began to settle in the Vales of Anduin. Or else - they were descended from other tribes akin to those in Rhovanion - and maybe those towns existed already (or their ancestors lived nearby - in other towns or small villages), and were perhaps bypassed by the Easterlings. Maybe the Easterlings went this way also though - not the prize Gondor was, but easier pickings. The Dwarves who later settled Erebor and the Iron Hills seem to all be descendants of those driven from Khazad Dum at the appearance of the Balrog - some 500 years plus after the Kin-strife in Gondor. The Balrog first showed up in 1980 and slew Durin VI. In 1981 the Dwarves abandoned Khazad Dum and in 1999 founded Erebor. For some reason - I don't know if it's really given, though it's stated that most of Durin's Folks had gathered in the Grey Mountains - the Dwarves of Erebor left there and went into the Grey Mountains (App A does tell us those mountains were rich and little explored - maybe the Dwarves Ring led them there?). This was 2210. They stayed there until a "cold-drake" slew Dain I in 2589. At this point, in 2590 - Thror (eldest son of Dain) led some folk back to Erebor and Gror (third son of Dain) led others to the Iron Hills, where they established a land of their own. So... neither Erebor nor the Iron Hills seem to have existed as Dwarf Realms in the 15th Century TA. I think that by 1409, the Dunedain of Arnor's remnants were all united, and actually enjoying a time of peace. During the reign of Argeleb, son of Malvegil, the kings of Arthedain claimed rulership over all Arnor (since there were no living descendants of Isildur remaining in either Cardolan or Rhudaur - by this I suspect at least no male descendants in a male line). Argeleb's reign was short, so this had to be between 1349 and 1356. I suspect right at 1349, and that "Argeleb" had taken that name at his coronation to signify the claim. The text states that Rhudaur resisted, and by implication, I think the remnants of Cardolan acquiesced. Tom Bombadil paints an ugly picture of what they had come to by then - so it must have been a relief for the people of Cardolan. Then came 1409. Combined forces of Rhudaur and Angmar attached Cardolan and Arthedain. We're told that in this time, there were no more Dunedain in Rhudaur ("slain or fled"). In this attack in 1409 - Arveleg son of Argeleb was slain, the Tower of Amon Sul was destroyed, any ruling structure left in most of Cardolan was likely crushed ("Cardolan was ravaged" - their prince was slain the Barrow Downs area) - with remnants of their people surviving in the Old Forest (an absolute last resort, I suppose - unless they knew it well or it was friendly to them) - and Fornost was beseiged. However - help was on the way. Forces from Lindon and Rivendell came to the rescue (Elrond had help from over the Mountains - likely Lorien, maybe also Thranduil's realm? After all - Angmar was also east of the Mountains). Angmar then suffered a great defeat themselves - not as absolute as in 1975 - but I think enough to ensure a time of peace for Arthedain. Araphor came to the throne young, at 18, but he had the second-longest reign of any king in Arnor/Arthedain (180 years) - only behind Valandil. I think things had finally settled down up north for awhile in 1432. I agree that the Elves and Istari would have wanted peace, rather than the Kin-strife - and likely had a preferred successor. I also like to hope that they were at work behind the scenes in these times of trouble. Or else - the greater troubles from 1974 to 2050 shocked them into a higher degree of activity.
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04-05-2018, 09:41 AM | #4 |
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Alcuin - you've got to be right about Gondor and Dol Amroth. There would have been many displacements among nobles in this period. First - Castamir would have removed any who were loyal to Eldacar (probably with accompanying executions - and displacement of former heirs). Then - when Eldacar regained power, he would have removed those loyal to Castamir, and likely also those who had tried to remain neutral. Don't know about the executions then - but those associated closely with Castamir would have tried to flee. Those positions would have gone either to the surviving heirs of their former holders - or else to those who had proven their loyalty to Eldacar.
Someone holding a position of nobility in the southern parts of Gondor in the late 1900's - first references of an ancestor of Dol Amroth's princes - must have been descended from someone like this. In the case of Dol Amroth - by a descendant of someone displaced, and then an heir restored - since their family clearly had holdings from the time of Elendil.
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04-05-2018, 09:53 AM | #5 |
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To summarize about the situation in Eriador at this time - here's what I think things looked like there, in say 1410.
I think things would have been about the same in Eriador from 1432 to 1447.
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04-05-2018, 08:01 PM | #6 | ||||
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In the case of Arnor and Angmar, they may have had peace after the end of their war in 1409 (or whatever was accounted as peace among the miserable subjects of the Witch-king), but both sides were exhausted for the time being. In Arnor, they had not only to bury their own dead but to dispose of their fallen foes. Rebuilding and recovering are difficult, tiring, and discouraging work, as the parents and grandparents of ’Mooters in Europe can recount. (Anyone in Europe care to share? If you’ve not asked your elders about the end of World War II, you should before they’re gone for good.) Intervening in “someone else’s war” is generally the last thing people want to do after a war of their own. (As opposed to moving from theater to theater in a wider war.) For the surviving Dúnedain of Eriador, their war with Angmar was (seemingly) unconnected to the Kin Strife in Gondor (or was it? ), however much it might have interested or concerned them in terms of trade, diplomacy, and military policy; besides, Gondor was by far the greater military and economic power, even in its weakened state following the Kin Strife. However, we should consider whether there were folk of Arnor or Gondor living in the other kingdom: merchants, for instance. After all, there was trade between the two until Arthedain collapsed completely. Trade was probably cut off during any fighting: it was too dangerous to travel, and “foreigners” must have been suspect, even Northern Dúnedain, since they might carry messages, or have agendas of their own. There remained a community at Tharbad presumably of Númenórean descent until the great bridge was ruined by the floods of 2912 (only nineteen years before Aragorn was born). There was no formal alliance between the two kingdoms in exile until 1940; but there should still have been diplomatic representatives in the respective capitals: it behooved Arthedain in particular as the weaker kingdom to maintain some diplomatic presence in Gondor, if they could. Quote:
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04-05-2018, 10:04 PM | #7 | ||
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And yes - you're probably right about any potential neutrals. They would have had to work pretty hard to keep from joining Castamir outright. That - and their position in that - ought to have been considered. Quote:
But wait... I'm correct???
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04-06-2018, 01:41 AM | #8 |
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Sure, and why not?
A couple of days ago, you hit the jackpot suggesting Saruman killed Radagast. Sounds like Eärniel thinks so, too; but she can always speak for herself. And you uncovered the “Century of Discontent” for the Dúnedain (and Dwarves), Third Age 1944-2050. You’re on a roll, dude! Keep going!! Must be all that fresh air. Buy a lottery ticket while you’re at it. ───◊─── Castamir’s usurpation of Eldacar could easily have been a “local” event. As commander of Gondor’s navy, the most powerful arm of its military and the part of Gondor’s military might most closely associated with Númenor in its glory days, his adherents were mostly likely concentrated around Pelargir and the seaward fiefs, Osgiliath, and Minas Anor, which also had a port. That doesn’t mean the cities (outside Pelargir, specifically mentioned as the principle stronghold of Castamir’s followers), but that naval forces could move into those places without causing curiosity or concern. If they could strike suddenly, more distant parts of the kingdom could not react before Eldacar was displaced: the only thing he could do was flee. If the coup took place quickly, that explains why Castamir’s wanton destruction in Osgiliath was so reprehensible. It might also explain how the Dome of Stars was ruined: that’s probably where the royal court (and throne room) were located, as well as the palant*r, and where the royal guard (the black-liveried guard to which Beregond belonged in Minas Tirith, the guard Pippin joined) were posted: they could be expected to fight to the last to defend the Dome of Stars whether or not the king, Eldacar, was in residence; Castamir seems to be the sort to slaughter any survivors for intransigence toward him and loyalty toward the rightful Heir of Anárion. When Castamir’s sons and supporters fled, they seem to have mostly sea-faring folk: from Pelargir, certainly, because it’s named, but perhaps also from Lebennin and the Ethir. South Gondor became “a debatable land,” not only because it was on the Harad Road, but perhaps also because that was home to some of Castamir’s adherents. Eldacar’s supporters are specifically mentioned as coming “from Calenardhon and Anórien and Ithilien.” Dor-en-Ernil and Belfalas are fiefs of Dol Amroth, are they not? I wonder where their loyalties fell: both are on the seacoast, and have ports of their own. Nothing is said of the other fiefs south of the White Mountains: Lamedon, Anfalas. Lamedon was inland, but Anfalas or Langstrand means “Long Shore”, another coastal region. When Castamir’s rebels returned from Umbar to raid, they were taking into slavery their own kinsfolk and former neighbors. |
04-06-2018, 01:46 AM | #9 |
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So you read through the "Century of Discontent" thread? Which is actually "Turbulent Times" in the subject line. I just changed that to add the years, so people know when I'm talking about, before opening it.
That was an OLD thread of mine though. So... I can afford to be correct about once per decade.
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04-06-2018, 03:17 AM | #10 | |
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On top of that, I think you’ve pointed out why we don’t hear anything of the movements or activities of the Istari until after the fall and rape of Fornost and the extinction of the House of Anárion: they were quietly helping the kings of Arthedain and Gondor. And I think this explains the timing of Gandalf’s visit to Dol Guldur only thirteen years after the demise of Eärnur. Sure looks like two home runs and a couple of doubles. Not bad at all. back a’cha. Be sure to get that lottery ticket tomorrow. |
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