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06-11-2003, 09:53 PM | #1 |
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Dying for Colored Rags
A segement from Territories by Rush
Better the pride that resides In a citizen of the world Than the pride that divides When a colorful rag is unfurled
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
06-11-2003, 10:54 PM | #2 |
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From Time by Hootie and the Blowfish
Time, I don't understand Children killing in the street Dying for the color of a rag Time, hey there red and blue Wash them in the ocean, make them clean, Maybe their mothers won't cry tonight I guess this is a thread about gangs, right afro-elf?
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"If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you." Gandalf to Pippin Psalm 107:31 |
06-11-2003, 11:12 PM | #3 | |
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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06-11-2003, 11:20 PM | #4 |
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Oh, ok. When I read the title, those Hootie lyrics were the first thing that came to mind. Carry on about nationalism.
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"If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you." Gandalf to Pippin Psalm 107:31 |
06-12-2003, 02:44 AM | #5 |
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I have this strange reaction to the word "nationalism..." a sort shudder...must be all the negative associations that come with it. How true, and sad, those words you posted, Afro-elf...
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Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK! |
06-12-2003, 03:35 AM | #6 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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I see nothing wrong with nationalism or being proud of your country. The difference is how people use it. Nationalism of Germany was evil under Hitler, however I do not have any negative connotations of the word. Unlike military nationalistic ferver, such as in the former Soviet Union, China, North Korea, we do not put on military parades.
I will unfurl my American flag and stand tall at being an American. People outside America may be turned off by America's patriotism - but that's not my problem. They have no say in whether I unfurl the flag or not. I do not view the rest of the world as being evil or beneath America. I question anyone if they are not proud of their country and nationality. Why live there then? Everyone should be nationalistic (not in the Hitler sense). If you're not proud of your country - then who else will be. If you don't look after it's interests - who do you think will? I am nationalistic toward NJ - the welfare of NJ comes before the United States in my view. We have state rights for this very purpose. Our Senators and Representatives represent the interests of New Jersey to the federal government (at least they're supposed to). They're not working for the interests of NY or California - they're working for MY interests - and those lie with New Jersey. The Federal Government on the other hand represents my interests to the world community. Sometimes the US interests come in conflict with other countries interests - but that is the way life is. The world can not expect us or any other country to go against it's self interests. 4th of July is coming up and it is a patriotic time. Not as patriotic as I would like - most people seem to think of it as a time for picnics, drinking and fireworks - instead of the time we declared our independence. It wouldn't take too much if on this day people would read the Declaration of Independence. In New Jersey we have tons of reenactments of Revolutionary Battles. We are having the 225th anniversary of the Battle of Monmouth which took place about a half hour from me. I've heard some people from outside the US say this is disgusting that Americans reenacts these battles. It's not just the reenactment of the battles - but the way of life. It's a way of learning about the history. We have reenactments for many many things - as I am sure many countries reenact their history as a way of teaching it. I know I went on a tangent on the last part - but basically to all the people that have a problem with America's pride and so called nationalism - get over it. The old European countries were a thousand times worse than America ever has been.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 06-12-2003 at 03:45 AM. |
06-12-2003, 04:12 AM | #7 | ||||||
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psssst - I don't think anyone was questioning yer right to do so Quote:
(Some people question WHY and HOW I could feel any pride at being South African ) Quote:
(btw - yer defending summin no-one has questioned yet! )
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06-12-2003, 04:17 AM | #8 | |
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Last edited by Sheeana : 06-12-2003 at 04:19 AM. |
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06-12-2003, 05:23 AM | #9 | |
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But if a better option turned up..........I'd pack my bags and emmigrate in an instant, I certainly don't intend to live here for my whole life. |
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06-12-2003, 06:57 AM | #10 |
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A piece on flags done by my mother for the newspaper:
Americans have largely ignored Flag Day in recent decades. Maybe this year a heightened sense of patriotism will bring a change in the holiday's fortunes. But a little flag can be a dangerous thing. We all know the flag means different things to different people, but why? How can something so ubiquitous also be so ambiguous? This year, our country marched to war in foreign lands, and flags blossom like spring bulbs in every nook and cranny of our public space. In my peace group, which has been holding a weekly vigil for over a year, the flags are creating controversy. I admit that I started it. One week I appeared at the vigil flaunting a beautiful new U.N. flag. I thought it expressed precisely what I wanted to say. The next week Hal wanted to bring a long pole flying the U.N. flag, with the U.S. flag beneath it, and the Massachusetts flag below that. Like me, he felt it expressed precisely what he wanted to say. Soon the flags were a major topic of discussion. "If we're going to fly anything," said one member, "it should be only the Stars and Stripes. We don't want to be misunderstood." And the argument was off and running. My strongest associations with the flag date from my teenage years. As a young child, of course, I had recited the Pledge of Allegiance in class. I can even remember pestering my parents to buy a flag and display it. But the late sixties brought a sea change in our culture and in my heart. The flag began to look different to me. One day in high school I found myself before an all-school assembly, being installed as treasurer of the student council. As the program began, everyone rose for the Pledge of Allegiance, and suddenly I found that I had no allegiance to pledge. Looking to my left and right, I realized with a shock that I was not alone. Of seven student council officers, four of us had failed to rise from our seats. We didn't plan this; we hadn't even thought about it. It was simply one result of the psychic wounds inflicted by the Vietnam War, and by the recriminations that flowed from it daily like blood from our body politic. With this on my mind, I asked Hal about the Stars and Stripes in his flag pantheon. "To me it means comfort, security and safety," he said. I was dumbfounded. During my political coming-of-age, the flag was a painful wedge, dividing "us" from "them". Who could find safety and security in that? Hal explained. In 1937 he was living with his family near Shanghai when the Sino-Japanese War broke out. His father, a doctor, worked in the American Hospital. During the Japanese bombardment, Hal's mother hand-stitched an American flag which they laid flat on the hospital roof. Readily visible to the pilots, the flag protected the hospital from the bombers. Japan was not yet willing to confront the Stars and Stripes, or the republic for which it stands. Safety and security through the flag were no empty words for Hal. Ask someone what the flag means and you will get a very personal answer. One person says, "Freedom." "It stands for 280 million people," says another. It stands for "one nation, under God", says the Pledge, although the "under God" part is under legal attack in California. But a flag can't say any of those things itself. A flag is mute. It has no words of its own. What we each experience when we see a flag is a ringing of chimes from our youth, an emotional echo from the time when the flag first took on meaning. Like my associations with the Vietnam era, and Hal's wartime recollections, that feeling is unique to each of us, and it has almost nothing to do with the here and now. Perhaps if we have something to say, we should use our words, as we often tell the children. As a way of communicating, flag-waving doesn't work well. When you see my flag, you'll feel something, but you'll never know if it's what I feel, or if we agree or disagree. Words at least can begin a discussion. Sometimes flag-waving just ends one. Still, sometimes I long to wrap myself in my favorite flag, because I need that sense of hope, pride, or security. I need it for myself, whether I'm understood or not. I think that motivates all of us flag-wavers, whether we're waving the same one or not. So the next time I see someone carrying a flag, I'll think to myself, "That is your precious flag. Long may it wave."
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06-12-2003, 06:58 AM | #11 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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06-12-2003, 07:02 AM | #12 | |
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Elf Girl - that's a good article BTW - very well spoken
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Don't wet yourself with excitement. |
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06-12-2003, 07:07 AM | #13 | |||||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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06-12-2003, 07:21 AM | #14 | |||||
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Beware the birdie doo bombs from America! Quote:
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Don't wet yourself with excitement. |
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06-12-2003, 07:24 AM | #15 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Elf Girl -
If a flag has no meaning - then why do people burn it in protest? Why would someone fly the UN flag higher than than the US flag. You know the US flag is not to be dipped to any person, object or other flag (that is why the US flag does NOT get lowered in the olympics during open ceremonies) . You also know that it is not to be flown below any other flag. There is a lot of symbolism tied to the US flag, if anyone cared to look. The UN does not look after the US interests - therefore I have no desire to EVER fly the UN flag. Personally as I have stated - we should leave the UN. The US Flag represents our country. During the Vietnam War the flag was routinely burned in America. Why? Because people saw it as representing America. During the "pro Saddam marches" recentlly held opposing military action in Iraq - there was no flag burning. Why? Because as the appeasement marchers said - they didn't want to come off as anti-American. They needed to come off as anti-war - not as anti-American. They also didn't want a repeat of the gross way the military personnel were treated during and after the Vietnam War.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
06-12-2003, 07:36 AM | #16 | ||||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 06-12-2003 at 07:40 AM. |
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06-12-2003, 07:37 AM | #17 | ||||||
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OK, well bye-bye America, nice knowing ye - send us a postcard from space (well, you are planning on flying yer continent off into the stars right?) Quote:
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06-12-2003, 07:46 AM | #18 | |||||
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Oh & I didn't mean to imply that you asked about SA for any other reason that interest. Quote:
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Don't wet yourself with excitement. |
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06-12-2003, 07:56 AM | #19 | |||||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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06-12-2003, 08:00 AM | #20 |
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JD, you are taking everything I say as a personal attack, which I certainly do not intend it to be and in return you are being very aggressive - I don't appreciate that, so I will refrain from commenting again.
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Don't wet yourself with excitement. |
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