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07-22-2003, 12:58 PM | #1 |
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Evil Elves!
Evil elves! no, not really. Tolkien made the elf king of mirkwood in the hobbit have a soft spot for gems and he was acting quite irational torwards thorin, but in lotr all elves seem to be flawless, just wondering what you guys think about it.
p.s: Hobbit is my fav!
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07-24-2003, 05:44 PM | #2 |
Elven Warrior
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Elves are not flawless. Look at Feanor, and Maeglin, and Eol, and I'm sure there are others. Actually, I think all Evles have some sort of flaw, just like humans. Look at the Kinslaying. I doubt Tolkien would create a flawless race.
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07-25-2003, 12:41 AM | #3 | |
The Fleet-Footed
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Quote:
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07-29-2003, 05:58 PM | #4 |
Elven Warrior
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Well, think about where those elves lived. Mirkwood was a pretty evil and horrible place at that time. Beside, elves seem to have something against dwarves... And yes, they're not flawless either, but that's what makes them interesting
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07-29-2003, 06:05 PM | #5 |
Alasailon
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Wasn't there a very similar thread somewhere around here? Or is that just my mind playing tricks on me. Anyway I do sort of agree. In the Hobbit, the Elf King seemed uncharacteristically greedy for an Elf. His hate for Dwarves can be understood, but why all the lust? What would he have done with it all? Or was that too part of the lure of a dragon's treasure?
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07-29-2003, 08:54 PM | #6 |
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Dont worry guys, just thought it an interesting subject. yeah i found another thread almost just like this, sorry.
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07-31-2003, 11:42 AM | #7 |
Hobbit
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I agree, the Elven King in the Hobbit was a bit greedy, but if you think about it, Tolkien devised The Hobbit even before The Silmarillion, and so it was his first chance to develop an Elven character. He probably thought it over, and then changed the Elves in his later works to be less greedy, but still, not perfect.
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08-04-2003, 10:09 PM | #8 |
Hobbit
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Eleves are by far the most incredible species created by tolkien but any perfect species would be boring. I think it's good that he gave the elf king flaws. with power comes the ability to be corrupted just like in humans. Not all elves are greedy but I think that being in the kings position gave him power and maybe even elves can be overthrown by power which is why elrond didn't want to tak the ring because he might have wanted to use it or keep it. Just my thoughts
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09-21-2003, 08:07 AM | #9 |
Sapling
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Ugh, if Elves had no flaws I wouldn't read the Hobbit. That's what's good about the Hobbit is it shows everybody's flaws.
In LOTR, Elves are perfect..in most ways anyway.
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09-22-2003, 08:50 PM | #10 |
"The Bomb"
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Yeah, I don't like to give reasons from the story why are the Mirkwood elves to evil. As a matter of fact, I don't think they're evil so much as preoccupied with all day parties. I guess they're irrisponsile more than anything.
Either way, I don't believe that Tolkien ever intended for questions like this to arise. He did wright the Hobbit before LotR, so he apparently hadn't decided yet that the elves should be perfect and sober.
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09-22-2003, 09:52 PM | #11 |
Sapling
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The Hobbit was meant to be a childrens book, and if the Elves weren;t irresponsible, then kids wouldn't relate!
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09-29-2003, 04:00 PM | #12 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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Wow! i figured this thread had gone down long ago...
Of course no race should be perfect(least of all elves . just joking) I was realll wanting to point out to some of my 'elves are perfect' friends that elves are definitely not perfect. i showed the the hobbit and they got mad and said they did not count it as part of the lotr story.
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10-13-2003, 08:40 PM | #13 |
Elven Warrior
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i don't think that the mirkwood elves acted much differently to thorin and company than the lorien elves did to gimli.
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11-29-2003, 01:01 AM | #14 |
Elf Lord
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Certainly the elves in LOTR seem less flawed then the Hobbit or Silmarillion elves. If third age elves have a flaw it might be not so much "evil" as insularity. That is essentially how Mirkwood and Lorien elves seem to react to not just dwarves, but hobbits and humans who enter. Perhaps related to their "fading." Rivendell was more outgoing, perhaps due to being near a main road, a home for Isildur's heirs and base of the rangers, and its head being halfelven.
And a strain of "greed" in elves might be seen in all three ages, for example 1---(Feanor and kids trying to get the silmarils against all rational considerations for success, 2---Celebrimbor forging the Three Rings and other rings, 3---and Thranduil "had a great love for jewels and riches, and it may have been this love that led him to excesses, especially with the Dwarves", the complete guide to Middle-earth.
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11-29-2003, 10:01 AM | #15 | |
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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