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05-18-2006, 12:55 PM | #1 | ||
Lady of the Ulairi
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Sauron's trips to Sammath Naur
Sam and Frodo saw Sauron’s road from Barad-dûr to Sammath Naur
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If it was the case, then Shagrat's words: "The Eye is busy elsewhere" may have simply meant that Sauron (referred to as "the Eye" by the Orcs) was away from Barad Dur. So let us see. There is about 50 miles between Barad-Dur and Orodruin: at least half a day hard riding. I don't think Sauron used a Fell Beast, because why then did he need a road maintained in order? So, Darkness started to pour out of Mordor on March 9. Sauron was probably at Sammath Naur, and also made a signal for Morgul host to leave (It seems he loved dramatic effects: why couldn't he simply set the hour in advance or sent a nazgul?). Sauron must have stayed there for several days: till March 13. Proof? The nazgul normally were able to send instant messages to Sauron. But they were unable to do so for a good while, most likely due to Sauron's absence. Quote:
Likely, when he returned to Barad-Dur, he rushed to his Palantir and kept all his attention on Minas Tirith and Denethor and on the Pelennor, disregarding small matters, like a capture of a spy at Ungol. But his being away from Mt. Doom proved perilous, as his Darkness failed on the morning of the Pelennor Battle (March 15). I think, poor Sau hurried immediately to Orodruin again, to make new portion of smoke, and thus missed the approach of Aragorn up Anduin. Sauron simply had too much on his hands, poor megalomaniac, never trusting his underlings enough... |
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05-19-2006, 09:45 AM | #2 | |||||
Spaceman Spiff
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Another great thread from Gordis.
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05-19-2006, 12:26 PM | #3 | |||||
Lady of the Ulairi
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It seems, that until Frodo was captured, both the nazgul and Sauron were troubled only about some spies, not hobbits: Quote:
Sauron, upon receiving the news, immediately sent a message to Cirith Ungol. (Interesting -how? Telegraph, perhaps ). This message is given: Quote:
Neither did the nazgul send anyone in pursuit until it was almost too late. I guess, the nazgul gave any intruders, except the short-legged exhausted hobbits , time enough to pass Cirith Ungol safely, before they raised an alarm. The hobbits were too slow on the stairs, slower then the nazgul reckoned them to be. That was a slight miscalculation, which almost proved fatal. But it is not as simple as that, because Sauron also sent Shagrat additional orders: Quote:
But why did he make such a connection? I don't know. Perhaps he suspected any anomaly, like an unheard-of spy on the Stairs to be connected with the Ring-business? Or he suspected only those events which caused his nazgul to act strange to be connected with the Ring? As for the nazgul, I think their keeping quiet about the passage of the spies by their fortress for several days was a last straw that finally broke Sauron's trust. He started to sum up things: their long search for the Ring in the Vales, their failure in the Shire, and at the Weathertop, and at the Ford, their inability to locate hobbits with the Ring later... Then, it seems, after capturing Frodo, the orcs were too busy fighting over his mithril shirt to send a messenger to Barad-Dur. Quote:
Last edited by Gordis : 05-19-2006 at 12:31 PM. |
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05-19-2006, 01:43 PM | #4 | ||||
Elven Warrior
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05-19-2006, 03:12 PM | #5 |
Lady of the Ulairi
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Oh, yes, I know this quote. It describes the nazgul actions if they faced Frodo wielding the Ring. Sauron had primary control of their wills, while Frodo would only have some secondary control.
And yes, Sauron was able to control the nazgul when he used their Rings to control them. But he couldn't do that all the time. His only problem was that he couldn't do everything at once: look in the Palantir, control Denethor, control orcs, control Orodruin eruptions, control the nazgul, plan the battles, run Mordor etc. etc. He was alone to do all that, so once he was set on one thing, he had to let slip the others. And the nazgul must have had a pretty good idea when trey were being watched and when not. A quote is a good thing, but look at the facts. Why were the orcs ordered to report to Barad-Dur ONLY, and not to Minas Morgul? |
05-19-2006, 04:24 PM | #6 | ||
Elven Warrior
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05-20-2006, 06:27 AM | #7 | |
Elf Lord
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Gor:
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*cough* Galadriel *cough* |
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02-18-2009, 08:59 AM | #8 |
Sapling
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I do believe there is a reason Sauron could have expected that a Ring-bearer might have been creeping across Cirith Ungol into Mordor that had nothing to do with destroying the Ring: assassination. He assumed that no one would desire to destroy it. He assumed one of the great would acquire it and seek to subjugate the world. He had, in Mordor, a pre-fabbed army trained and equipped for the destruction of Minas Tirith. Gandalf (for example) could plan to sneak into Mordor (even without the Ring, I feel he would have been willing to face Shelob), sneak into Barad-Dur, *splortch* Sauron, and wrest control of the troops? I believe he would have failed, but it seems reasonable to think Sauron could have planned for that as a contingency. Throughout the tale we are told he believes one of the great will acquire the ring and seek to use it, and that does not necessarily mean using it in a pitched battle.
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02-18-2009, 10:09 AM | #9 |
Elf Lord
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Could someone have mastered The One Ring and used it to overthrow Sauron or not? Seems to me, if not, then he had nothing to fear. Yet, he was clearly afraid that someone would do exactly that. Why? I've never heard an explanation that satisfies me on this point.
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02-18-2009, 03:38 PM | #10 |
Lady of the Ulairi
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DPR, it is all in the letter 246.
One "of equal stature", = Gandalf could have mastered the Ring. Tolkien is uncertain about Elrond and Galadriel. Men - no. (I am quoting from memory) |
02-18-2009, 05:46 PM | #11 | |
Salt Miner
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From the end of Letter 246:
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02-18-2009, 06:12 PM | #12 |
Elf Lord
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So why did he care when he thought Aragorn had it? Or did he think Gandalf had it and Aragorn was simply his puppet to be placed on Gondor's throne? I've read the letter, I just don't think it makes a lot of sense in light of Sauron's published behavior. It doesn't feel right to me. If The Ring in the hands of anyone would have been easily returned to Sauron when they met face to face, why would Sauron care who had it or what he was doing with it?
Say Aragorn had it and learned to wield it. He becomes a great despot and takes over the world. Then he meets Sauron: Sauron: Give me the ring, boy. Aragorn: Ok. Here. Sauron: Bwahahahaha! My work here is done. What am I missing here?
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02-18-2009, 07:01 PM | #13 | |
Lady of the Ulairi
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02-19-2009, 04:43 AM | #14 | |
Elven Warrior
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