Glorfindel's Prophecy

[Haradrim]

Was the witch king prophecy open to all women and non men or was it exclusive to Merry and Eowyn. Meaning was the prophecy No man can kill the witch-king or no man will kill the witch king. I thinkit is the second because prophecies are usually exclusive to one set oif circumstances. But thats just my opinion

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

We've got this already in the other thread so we'd just be repeatig ourselves.
Edit it to make it about the WK's prophercy.

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

We've got this already in the other thread so we'd just be repeatig ourselves.
Edit it to make it about the WK's prophercy.

Not by Haradrim can this be done! (only one of US can do it! )

I made the title change.

I don't think that Glorfindel was saying that it was impossible for a man to kill the Witch-King. I think he had a glimpse or flash of insight to the WK's doom - and was speaking about what he knew was going to happen. Or possibly, he was 'given' the words by Eru or the Valar... and didn't even understand himself how they would be fulfilled.

[Lefty Scaevola]

I have suspected that many of the more specific parts of prophey were simply added by lateer authors after the event, to embelish the tale.

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Lefty Scaevola

I have suspected that many of the more specific parts of prophey were simply added by lateer authors after the event, to embelish the tale.

Ah - a sceptic, eh? Don't think Glorfindel actually spoke those words before they were fulfilled?

It IS interesting that the WK repeats the prophecy to Eowyn... either he had very good hearing, while in flight (and took Glorfindel's words to heart) - or his spies discovered the words (assuming they WERE actually spoken ), and reported them back to him. Unless... it was someone ELSE who made the prophecy (help me out here Olmer! )... someone on the DARK side!

[brownjenkins]

elves always seemed to have the power to glimpse into the music of the ainur... maybe a side-effect from their time in valinor... and glorfindel made two trips... in some ways, i've always wondered why he was sent back... maybe his 'prophecy' was part of the role eru meant him to play

would the witch-king have been so careless about watching his back if not for glorfindel's words?

[Olmer]

"Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!"

The Witch King actually says that NOBODY can stop him, not kill him. Just it, and nothing else. As a most powerful of Sauron's servants he believed in his invincibility, and he has wery right to do so. He just broke the inpenetratable Gate of Minas-Tirith and sneered at at barring his way Gandalf.
He knew, that he already has a huge advantage by ability to instill unreasoning fear in his opponent. He assumed that on the battle-field he is facing a Man (who else?), so he adressed accordingly. And his words is not about gender, or even race at all. He heard or mentioned NOTHING about the profecy.
I think that the Ringwraith proud boasting had nothing to do with some elf's prophecy, who was just telling to Earnur of his foreseeing who will eventually bring the Witch King down and nothing else.
Sorry, Valandil, this time nobody were 'scaffolding' behind the scenes.
Just fate.

[Attalus]

Originally Posted by Valandil

I don't think that Glorfindel was saying that it was impossible for a man to kill the Witch-King. I think he had a glimpse or flash of insight to the WK's doom - and was speaking about what he knew was going to happen. Or possibly, he was 'given' the words by Eru or the Valar... and didn't even understand himself how they would be fulfilled.

I agree with this. The word that JRRT used to describe this was "foresighted," which to me implies seeing the event, like in Galadriel's Mirror. I think Glorfindel saw a glimpse of the W-K's death at Éowyn's hand, and was just reporting. As for the W-K, his spies would have soon reported that to him, as I am certain it was the hottest gossip in Minas Tirith for a month of Sundays.

[Jon S.]

It was one small stab for [a] [wo]man, one giant slice for mankind.

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by Jon S.

It was one small stab for [a] [wo]man, one giant slice for mankind.

Love it

[Galin]

According to this site, in Adûnaic man was narû: 'narû "man" (SD:434), Elvish stem NERE (WJ:393; though according to the Etymologies, the original stem was DER, with NÊR as a special Quenya form - see LR:354, 376). naru "man, male" (434, fully inflected in 437, that also gives an alternative form narû)'

See also that man and male was the same word, like in English.

I'm no expert in Adûnaic, but I note the gloss is lower case here. Also, the author of this list appears to be drawing a comparison to the Elvish stem *NERE referring to physical strength and valour, from which the word nér 'a male person, a man' was derived. There is another entry in this Adûnaic list:

anâ 'homo, human being' (426, 434, fully inflected in 437); masculine anû 'a male, man', feminine anî 'a female' (434) (more technical words than naru, kali 'man, woman').

These examples roughly date to the mid 1940s IIRC.

Anyway I can't claim much about my Westron guess *kil, but I do note an Eldarin stem KHIL- back in Etymologies, with a general meaning 'follow', from which derives 'hildi followers = mortal men' and the word Tarkil is noted (*tara-khil) in the same entry. This same root is repeated in the later texts published in PE17, where it is also noted under Dúnadan: 'All Men were also called hildi 'followers' (KHIL- follow).'

This might enlighten the meaning of Westron *kil (that I guess could be a word in Westron anyway). In any case, generally speaking, words borrowed from another language need not carry the exact same meaning as the original tongue.