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02-24-2003, 12:11 AM | #1 | ||||||
The Tall
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Formenos
Posts: 578
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Túrin and The Second Prophecy of Mandos
Would Túrin really return from the dead and kill Morgoth? This prophecy has long roots. From The Book of Lost Tales II: Turambar and the Foalókë
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From The Shaping of Middle-Earth: The Earliest Silmarillion Quote:
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We have also a Commentary regarding this part. From The Shaping of Middle-Earth: Commentary on the Quenta Quote:
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From Morgoth’s Ring: Later Quentas Quote:
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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02-24-2003, 12:13 AM | #2 | ||||
The Tall
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Formenos
Posts: 578
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Now we come to an interesting change in the philosophy of The Silmarillion, when it changes from being made from an elvish perspective to a mannish one.
From Morgoth’s Ring: Myths Transformed Quote:
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First he was made to come back from the dead and slay Morgoth with his black sword, then that conception changed to slaying Ancalagon the Black. The question that arises is can this prophecy be accounted as true? From Morgoth’s Ring: The Valaquenta Quote:
From Morgoth’s Ring: Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth, Note 7 Quote:
Che pensi tu?
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
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02-24-2003, 07:05 AM | #3 |
Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 2,870
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I've been wondering on this myself, since I read the passage from The Peoples of Middle-Earth: The Problem of Ros. Christoffers note from that text is very interesting, and it seems like Tolkien's vision of the Last Battle was very drifting.
I actually like the idea, and would be happy to see Túrin in a fight against Morgoth (althrough it seems like it was rejected)...
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Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle. Last edited by Falagar : 02-24-2003 at 07:06 AM. |
02-24-2003, 09:39 AM | #4 |
The Tall
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Formenos
Posts: 578
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I too like better the idea of the Quenta Noldorinwa, where Túrin slays Morgoth and redeems the House of Húrin. It seems more grand to me.
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
02-24-2003, 10:35 AM | #5 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Wolverhampton, England.
Posts: 260
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Was the Dagor Dagorath even considered in the final canon?
Anyway, I really doubt whether Turin's slaying of Morgoth was accepted in the later canon. One part of the Second Prophecy that I hope remains, is the re-deeming of Feanor. I feel that such a tragic character deserves a happy ending, and the same goes for Turin. |