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12-04-2002, 12:35 AM | #1 |
Elf Lord
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Range of the Nazgul
In another thread we were discussing the perception of Gandalf. He was able to percieve far off events. In a similar vein, I was wondering if the Nazgul had a certain range whereby they could percieve the Ring (or any display of power for that matter). It is said that the Ring drew them, but how close do y'all think that they would need to be to discover it. It was right under their nose in the Shire, yet the hobbits got away. Then they were drawn to Bree. Was it because it was used in Bree? Or out in the Wild, they tracked the Ring to Weathertop...and from there to the Ford. The Witch-King got a twitch outside of Minas Morgul, but didn't understand what was afoot in his own backyard. Maybe the hobbits managed to keep upwind or something.
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12-04-2002, 01:14 PM | #2 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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The title of this thread made me think of gas mileage, for some strange reason.... or hay mileage .... "this model Black Rider horse gets 100 miles per hay bale on the Road to Bree, and 75 miles per hay bale on the Old Forest Road..."
Have you read "The Hunt for the Ring" (Part 3, chpt. 4) in Unfinished Tales? That has some interesting extra info about Black Riders. In the notes, it explains the Ringwraiths' fear of water, which was never really made clear in LoTR. Somewhere it says in there that they actually entered the river, despite their fear, because the ring was right before them (when Frodo defied them at the Ford). Also, JRRT says of Khamul, the rider seen on the far side of the Buckleberry Ferry just after the Hobbits crossed, that: Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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12-04-2002, 01:48 PM | #3 | |
The Quite Querulous Quendi
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There's also something in FOTR about us "casting shadows in their minds".
I've often wondered about this, too. Also about whether they instantly know what Sauron knows, and vice versa, or is there a time delay. In TTT, Gandalf says the Nazgul which flies overhead just after Pippin looks in the Palantir couldn't know about Pippin yet, which gave them a few hours (until a Nazgul flew from Mordor to Isengard) before he found out the stone had been nicked. Potential spoler if you've not read the ROTK:
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12-05-2002, 06:28 AM | #4 |
Elf Lord
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I always thought that the Nazgul's powers were intertwined with Sauron's. That's why Gandalf was able to defeat the riders at Weathertop but the witch king alone was able to confront him at Minas Tirith. Thus as extensions of Sauron's perception they would have grown more powerful as the dark lord did.
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12-07-2002, 11:44 PM | #5 |
Elven Warrior
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For the most part I agree with Agburanar.
I've always thought of it this way: Their perception of the ring is like smell. They can tell the general direction to move to get closer to it. The closer they get the stronger the "scent." But with the barer uses the ring, it's like all senses are turned on. They can see the bearer as well as "smell" the direction to move.
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12-09-2002, 10:42 AM | #6 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
Seriously I wish to thank those who replied. Ma Uai: Ua Nemti, Agburanar, Dunadan, and Rian; all of you made good points and I am closer to understanding the Nazgul's perception. Thanks again! |
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12-09-2002, 02:57 PM | #7 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Quote:
You're welcome
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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12-09-2002, 05:51 PM | #8 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
The T-shirt for this thread should have Khamul baking a pie. Or perhaps the Witch-King roasting Gollum on a top burner! |
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01-21-2003, 01:01 PM | #9 | |
Quasi Evil
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Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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01-21-2003, 01:23 PM | #10 |
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Well this is my theory on being clairvoyant.
A person may have a range as great as Gandalf. but if he is evil than he wudnt ever realize his true potential the same goes for my Math teacher( evil man he is) |
01-21-2003, 08:47 PM | #11 | ||
High King of Númenórë
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Quote:
I also think that the it goes a little beyond that though. Remember the Nazgul once possessed rings themselves, however their minds/souls were corrupted by Sauron and they became wraiths. So basically they are alive in the demonic world so to speak, in tune with the ring. With that, they are in essence an entity one with Sauron and part of the ring themselves. I think that it isn't so much Sauron sending telepathy to them, I think they feel the ring themselves as they are wraiths under the dominion of the ring itself, which would explain their quick reactions to the ring being put on,
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
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01-21-2003, 11:33 PM | #12 |
Elf Lord
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I agree with those points about seeing and smelling, but I was also wondering how far away the Ringwraiths could be and still detect the ring. The Nazgul weren't actually in Bree when Frodo put on the ring at the inn. Yet they showed up shortly thereafter. Did they sense the use of power however inadvertant, or did they find out through their spies? I believe that not all the spies in Bree were in the employ of Saruman.
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