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11-06-2002, 12:53 AM | #1 |
The Tall
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Formenos
Posts: 578
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Númenor's Legacy
What do you think is the greater legacy that the Island of Númenor had in ME.
Was it it's Culture or the ancient blood line of Elros?
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
11-06-2002, 01:02 PM | #2 |
Custous Sanctus
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In your subconsicious....
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I would have the culture.
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I must not fear. Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. - Dune |
11-06-2002, 08:21 PM | #3 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
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I am sure that to one of the Third or Fourth Age, the greater legacy would be the blood-line of the royals. However, we remember Númenor today as Atlantis, and shadows of the culture of that isle still live on in our stories. I don't know, but I don't think that Plato spoke overmuch of the Kings fo Atlantis.
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Falmon -- Dylan |
11-06-2002, 10:46 PM | #4 |
The Tall
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Formenos
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I wonder sometimes, why is blood that important. Sure, the "pure" line of kings lived far longer than those of Mortal Men, but so what?
Isn't their beliefs and knowledge, the best support for their civilization in the future.
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“What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance. |
11-07-2002, 02:44 AM | #5 |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
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I would say culture. It takes more than a king to build that kind of history. All Numenoreans were enchanced when they went to Numenor.
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
11-07-2002, 03:00 AM | #6 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
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Culture is very important, but in the case of the Numenoreans, you could perhaps argue that the reason their culture was so advanced and complicated, was because of their genetic "blood" stock. They were a long lived people, and this factor could be tied directly to the advancement of the Numenorean culture.
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
11-07-2002, 03:04 AM | #7 |
Greatest Elven woman of Aman
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Bloodlines and inheritage seems to be of vital importance in Tolkien's world. Elendil and his sons had an Elvish strain in their blood, being descendants from Elros. I think this was more important to ME than the Númenorean culture. In this view the marriage between Aragorn and Arwen also has another aspect, besides that of Arwen being an inspiration for Aragorn to win kingship; With that union there was a renewed Elvish strain in the blood of the new Númenorean kingdom of Men in ME.
I also consider a long life a pre for a ruler of a kingdom. Often wisdom comes with age, especially in a world where peoples environment and way of living don't change much over the years.
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11-07-2002, 03:07 AM | #8 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: minneapolis MN
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Re: Númenor's Legacy
Quote:
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11-07-2002, 07:14 PM | #9 |
Enting
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Calgary
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I think that it is the blood lines, Tolkien places a lot of importance on them, and long life would certainly be important in a king.
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All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost. Tall ships and tall kings, three times three. What brought they form the foundered land Over the flowing sea? Seven stars and seven stones and one white tree. |
11-07-2002, 07:34 PM | #10 |
im quite stupid
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its far more than long life the heirs of elendil obvosly had quite superior intelegence valor and stamina than any other people. they were also pretty much taller than anyone else.
also strikes me that there was an inhearent knoledge in the line of elendil the ability to heal and so forth. dont forget that much of the lore of the numoerians was lost at the time of the war of the ring and in the end the heir of isildur saved the day so in conclusion it was the blood that was more important.
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11-07-2002, 09:10 PM | #11 |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
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ALL Numenoreans were enchanced by the Valar. BUT it was only the Royal house that had Elven blood. The Royals did not do EVERY single act of importance. However, it seems that the Royals had DRAMATIC affects on ME.
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
11-07-2002, 11:10 PM | #12 |
AngAdan
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Boerne, Texas
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The greatest sailors in the world, greater (or perhaps more blessed by the Valar and Osse) than Cirdan's sailors. Some passage in one of the of HoME or maybe it was UT metions that NO Numenorian ship ever sank or foundered until the downfall.
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Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me," |
11-13-2002, 12:23 AM | #13 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: charlotte, n.c.
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The bloodlines are more important to the story than cultural considerations. By far. That makes it the legacy of greater importance.
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11-13-2002, 05:05 PM | #14 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
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I also think that it was the bloodline. As Sween said, other attributes come with them, like valor, stamina, and possibly superior intellect (Height is a small one, but still there). Aragorn is probably the greatest of men in Middle Earth at his time, and they were all like him. They were so strong that Sauron was weak next to their strength, and they had power over the world when they were at the height of their pride and strength.
They were blessed by the Valar, and I think were basically like a race of superior men. They also were humble and good, in the beginning, just as they should be. As a matter of a fact, that has allegories to the Bible in it too. But after their power came, pride came with it and evil came with Sauron. And then they had to be punished for falling into sin. |
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