|
FAQ | Members List | Calendar | Mark Forums Read |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
02-08-2007, 10:42 AM | #1 |
Enting
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Gondolin. in travian.it server5
Posts: 91
|
On him alone is any charge laid
Probably someone discussed it before, please refer me to it if you've seen this question before.
As I was rereading LOTR for the n'th time, I came across Elronds speech: "On him alone is any charge laid: neither to cast away the Ring, nor to deliver it to any servant of the Enemy nor indeed to let any handle it, save members of the Company and the Council, and only then in gravest need." Does Frodo break this promise when he offers Galadriel the ring?
__________________
The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day! What does "LOL" mean? |
02-08-2007, 11:13 AM | #2 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
|
Quote:
|
|
02-08-2007, 08:19 PM | #3 | ||
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 455
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
02-09-2007, 04:59 AM | #4 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
|
Well, Gandalf dead, the ring working its power on others in the Company.. seems pretty grave.
The other aspect to this is his "testing" of Galadriel. Depending on which version of her life you look at, her refusal of the Ring, offered freely, was what allowed her to end her exile, forsake ME and return to Valinor. So maybe Frodo was acting as an agent of a higher mission in this particular instance. |
02-09-2007, 06:05 AM | #5 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: here and there
Posts: 3,514
|
On him alone is any charge laid
Thank God the West Midlands serious crime squad were not involved in this investigation. .................... Also - you ignored the rather important difference between 'handling it' and 'offering ownership' of it ... "nah then missus, nice bit of jewlry this'n - feel the quality o' that - real gold, dat! - yours fer a steal!" *frodo opens up coat revealing 101 watches* ................... Quote:
Then, if we agree this, since he does offer it, it would have to be assumed that it was the will of the ring, working through Frodo, that offered itself ... The question is though, does Galadriel break faith by so seriously considering it - by allowing herself to come to the very crux of being on a knife edge of going one way or the other? Elrond and Gandalf (and others) will not even entertain the idea of going near that battle of temptation in the first place. yet the ring and Galadriel together? Last edited by Butterbeer : 02-09-2007 at 06:08 AM. |
|
02-09-2007, 06:43 AM | #6 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 421
|
"Need anything dangerous ever cross any of our paths?"
Quote:
Furthermore, I don't think she let herself on the knife's edge; Tolkien also states that "Galadriel's rejection of the temptation was founded upon previous thought and resolve" - she wasn't toying around; the mirror scene was the final act in her fight against its influence. As such, "she was pardoned [for rebellion and refusal to return] because of her resistance to the final and overwhelming temptation to take the Ring for herself". Last edited by Landroval : 02-09-2007 at 06:44 AM. |
|
02-08-2007, 11:14 AM | #7 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: LI-woods, NY
Posts: 653
|
That was a speech designated for an unaware public, and also a crafty way to put all burden solely on Frodo. Elrond perfectly knew that Frodo already bonded with a Ring and won't be able to break his promise to carry the ring till the end, unless the ring itself will decide to change the keeper.
"A Ring of Power looks after itself, Frodo. It may slip off treacherously, but its keeper never abandons it. At most he plays with the idea of handing it on to someone else's care — and that only at an early stage, when it first begins to grip. But as far as I know Bilbo alone in history has ever gone beyond playing, and really done it. He needed all my help, too. And even so he would never have just forsaken it, or cast it aside. It was not Gollum, Frodo, but the Ring itself that decided things. The Ring left him." (FOTR) So, in this case Frodo was safe:the decision of the Ring's owner change will never be of his own, and he can offer the Ring to whoever he would wish to.
__________________
Uruk-hai, or the journey to there. |
02-10-2007, 07:50 PM | #8 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 455
|
Quote:
|
|
02-11-2007, 03:38 AM | #9 |
Enting
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Gondolin. in travian.it server5
Posts: 91
|
So Frodo's offering the ring to Galadriel was a higher power acting? Either the ring itself or the fateful test of Galadriel? Or even both wills coinciding?
Nice thought
__________________
The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day! What does "LOL" mean? |
02-11-2007, 07:13 AM | #10 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 421
|
Considering that in the Atrabeth it is stated that:
Quote:
|
|
02-11-2007, 08:49 AM | #11 |
Enting
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Gondolin. in travian.it server5
Posts: 91
|
I'm not so sure about the ring, though.
It seems that the ring tries to get back to its master, but from what G&G co. (Gandalf and Galadriel) say, some other very strong will may successfully master the ring (and lesser wills just get betrayed by it). So it may be the ring's power (and free will) too. (Although of course Sauron and even Melkor ultimately played a part ordained by Eru)
__________________
The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day! What does "LOL" mean? |
02-11-2007, 03:09 PM | #12 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: here and there
Posts: 3,514
|
Quote:
this, to me, opens up the core of, most of the genuinely interesting debates on here - and those that most of the better read and free-thinking minds on here have been, one way or another, engaged in ... i look forward to see where this freely develops ... best, BB Last edited by Butterbeer : 02-11-2007 at 03:10 PM. |
|
02-11-2007, 10:20 PM | #13 | |
Dreamweaver
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go...
Posts: 3,560
|
Quote:
__________________
Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih... |
|
02-12-2007, 12:29 AM | #14 |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
Posts: 3,767
|
I think Galadriel was trying to entice Frodo into giving her the ring, a situation where he was strongly overmatched and thus not completely responsible, but her conscience won over in the end and she refused.
__________________
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Rohan Charge - a bit of "Braveheart" there? | Grey_Wolf | Lord of the Rings Movies | 3 | 12-26-2003 12:11 AM |