10-23-2002, 11:52 PM | #121 | ||
Hoplite Nomad
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Damn it Jim....You don't use carbon dating for things after a certain period. You will use things like urainium. Quote:
That was argubaly the most philistine comment on the subject of evolution that I have heard in a LONG time if not ever. I guess that makes people who believe in talking snakes tempting people are genuises. If you really wanna learn and like entmoot comb through the old these threads http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/show...?threadid=1780 http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/show...ght=antitheist http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/show...?threadid=1757 http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/show...?threadid=2186 http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/show...ghlight=theism http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/show...ight=evolution
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. Last edited by afro-elf : 10-24-2002 at 12:32 AM. |
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10-24-2002, 12:46 AM | #122 | |
the Shrike
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10-24-2002, 12:57 AM | #123 | |
the Shrike
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Radiocarbon dating can only be used from 1950AD - 50-60,000 years ago. There ARE other absolute radiometric dating methods that are used to go back further. Have we got this straight, people? Radiocarbon dating. ONLY 50-60,000 BP. ONLY on organic material. ONLY on dead organic material. No rocks, no live samples, no going back further than 60,000 years. If you go back further then use rubidium, uranium, or something similar.
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10-24-2002, 01:13 AM | #124 | |
the Shrike
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Those creatures as you call them, are not around today because they went extinct. We are the only species to have survived. The earth "rocks" can be dated using Rb-Sr isochron, 207Pb-206Pb isochron, U-Pb discordia, Th-Pb discordia, or Lu-Hf isochron sequences.
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10-24-2002, 01:40 AM | #125 |
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I apologize, BeardofPants. I just double checked my source about the length of radio carbon dating, and you are right about the length of time it goes backward. But radio carbon dating is really the only dating type that shows how far back human beings go. Isn't that correct?
And I do not withdraw my statement about the margin of error. There is a strong argument for error in the radio carbon dating process within the last three thousand years, but before that, there is little argument for radio carbon dating's being right. It doesn't line up with historical or archaelogical records from the time periods at all. Since it doesn't during times where they can put it beside such records, and assuming it keeps consistently getting less accurate the farther back in time you go, then there is little reason why Christians should believe, on the basis of that, that mankind is as old as evolution says it is. Last edited by Lief Erikson : 10-24-2002 at 01:49 AM. |
10-24-2002, 03:01 AM | #126 | |||
the Shrike
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And there ARE other dating methods for "young" dates. Remember that there are relative dating methods, as well as radiometric. Quote:
And have you not heard of callibration? Obviously not, since you fail to mention it. Quote:
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10-24-2002, 11:47 AM | #127 |
Custous Sanctus
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BoP- do you believe in evolution??
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I must not fear. Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. - Dune |
10-24-2002, 12:37 PM | #128 |
Elf Lord
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BeardofPants, I do realize that there are other dating methods for recent dates. And radio carbon dating does have a relatively good success rate for recent things. But that's because radio carbon dating is assuming that the C14 isotope in all living things is at a constant. It is breathed into a creature throughout their life, and at death it stops being breathed in. The C14 isotope decays at a steady rate, and they can use the rate of decay to judge how old the creature is.
I realize there are other ways as well, like when they tried to match their radio carbon dates with those given using tree rings. But their original radio carbon dates, when tested with earlier historical data, have not shown to match up at all. They showed everything to be a good deal older. And when compared with tree rings, everything appeared to be older yet. You're right, I don't know about very many of those other dating methods, but I am largely talking about radio carbon dating here. And I realize that evolution assumes that man was a gradual creation, so radio carbon dating certainly can't go before man. But Christians believe that man was a quick creation, and that there was a first man: Adam. Evolutionists would probably say that apes slowly evolved into man, and that if Adam was the first, then he was only the first because he was very similar to how we are now, but his predecessor was only a hair different then him. Radio carbon dating demonstrates dates of man preceeding Adam, and because it does discuss organic material, it is the dating method that I am picking on. |
10-24-2002, 12:44 PM | #129 | |
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10-24-2002, 01:35 PM | #130 | |
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10-24-2002, 02:02 PM | #131 | ||||
the Shrike
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10-24-2002, 02:43 PM | #132 |
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LE, my remark to Ms Umd. was MY belief of what happens after you die. She asked, I answered!! The near death experience is simply the way a brain shuts down. (IMO) That's why so many people who have almost died (they weren't totally dead, or they wouldn't have been able to be revived, unless a miracle was involved) have similar experiences. The brain shuts down pretty much the same way for everyone.
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10-24-2002, 04:09 PM | #133 | |
Self-Appointed Lord of the Free Peoples of the General Messages
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I'm saying that us having 99% of the same DNA as monkeys makes since because we are so similar. I don't think it says anything against Intelligent Design or Evolution. Starr Polish and all others interested in Theistic Evolution please read this http://www.icr.org/pubs/btg-b/btg-111b.htm which I agree with 100%. |
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10-24-2002, 04:55 PM | #134 | |
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10-24-2002, 08:18 PM | #135 | |
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You are your brain. Your emotions are in your frontal lobe. Love is not sacred Stage 1: LUST Lust is driven by the sex hormones testosterone and oestrogen. Testosterone is not confined only to men. It has also been shown to play a major role in the sex drive of women. Stage 2: ATTRACTION This is the truly love-struck phase. When people fall in love they can think of nothing else. They might even lose their appetite and need less sleep, preferring to spend hours at a time daydreaming about their new lover. In the attraction stage, a group of neuro-transmitters called 'monoamines' play an important role: Dopamine - Also activated by cocaine and nicotine Norepinephrine - Otherwise known as adrenalin. Starts us sweating and gets the heart racing Serotonin - One of love's most important chemicals and one that may actually send us temporarily insane Stage 3: ATTACHMENT This is what takes over after the attraction stage, if a relationship is going to last. People couldn't possibly stay in the attraction stage forever, otherwise they'd never get any work done! Attachment is a longer lasting commitment and is the bond that keeps couples together when they go on to have children. Important in this stage are two hormones released by the nervous system, which are thought to play a role in social attachments: Oxytocin - This is released by the hypothalamus gland during child birth and also helps the breast express milk. It helps cement the strong bond between mother and child. It is also released by both sexes during orgasm and it is thought that it promotes bonding when adults are intimate. The theory goes that the more sex a couple has, the deeper their bond becomes Vasopressin - Another important chemical in the long-term commitment stage. It is an important controller of the kidney and its role in long-term relationships was discovered when scientists looked at the prairie vole Your thoughts dreams hopes etc are part of your brain. And its all chemistry and physics No soul
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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10-24-2002, 08:23 PM | #136 |
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Starr WHO are these scientist?
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
10-25-2002, 01:12 AM | #137 |
Elf Lord
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Afro elf, the soul is spiritual, and you cannot prove or disprove the existence of spiritual things with science. I disagree with you that you are your brain, and there's no way that science can show that my disagreement is wrongheaded and that there are no souls. You can say that all the emotions we feel and thoughts we think are chemical reactions, but regardless as to whether this is true or not, this doesn't destroy the idea of a soul.
Also about love. Simply because love is a chemical reaction doesn't mean that it isn't sacred. If God put chemicals in you purposely to react a certain way, and then he gives spiritual and moral reasons for you to use them only a certain way, you are obligated to obey those rules. Whether love is a chemical reaction or not. God does frequently create or do things in a natural way. In the Bible, he uses natural as well as miraculous ways to fulfill his perfect designs. Simply because there is a scientific explanation for something doesn't prove that God didn't make it. BeardofPants, when you get into calibration, that really depends also on the reliability of the things they compare the dating to. I know they have done it with tree rings, but water density within the tree messed with their methods. Because of that, they started using the trees at really high altitudes because these were deemed to be more reliable, as the mountains are counted as extremely old, and the water couldn't reach them there. However, Christianity assumes a flood not thousands of years ago, and this flood would have affected these trees as well, making them impossible to use for dates. The archaelogical and historical dates I don't know as much about, so if you want to enlighten the thread, you can. All of those different methods, uranium dating, etc. all use radio activity, assuming that this amount in the atmosphere remains at a constant. However, there are things that can affect this atmospheric amount, making it unstable and thus unreliable. If you want to describe to me more about uranium dating and those other methods, you can do that as well if you wish. They are outside of my main realm of knowledge, but I'd be happy to learn more. Last edited by Lief Erikson : 10-25-2002 at 01:20 AM. |
10-25-2002, 01:24 AM | #138 | ||
the Shrike
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10-25-2002, 01:24 AM | #139 | |
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The idea may exist true but the evidence for it is lacking. Preternatural feelings can be produced in the lab. There is no need for superaltive agencies. If it can be expalined naturally. "isn't it enough to see the garden is beautiful without having to add faeries?" The point is that when there is nothing to support a preternatural claim believer retreat to the unassailable. I will take reasonsable evidence over faith/hope any day Also Leif thank you, for having the composuer to discuss without fighting.
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. Last edited by afro-elf : 10-25-2002 at 01:28 AM. |
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10-25-2002, 02:14 AM | #140 |
Elf Lord
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Well Afro elf, I'm going to change my argument a bit. Let's go to the quantum level, shall we? Not everything is governed by mechanics when you go to the level of quantum mechanics. There, there is chance. Chance isn't part of the rule that things can happen only one way, and that chemical reactions are the brain. And when you get into probability mechanics and things at the quantum level, things are irrational and depend upon chance. There is no way of saying that that chance isn't design.
There is no way of disproving that the thought which the soul thinks causes the brain activity that is observed, and the chemical reactions that follow. The soul or spirit can have a will and have thoughts of its own, and when it thinks one of those thoughts, chemical reactions go on in your head and you think that thought. People can go brain dead and then their brain cannot function, making their soul not able to act through the body. But we believe that the reverse is also true, and that when the soul is captured or suppressed, the brain is no longer capable of acting as the soul guides. This we believe is demon possession. It acts rationally, but a different soul is speaking through it, and what is you no longer commands. There isn't any proof for these things, or against them. There doesn't have to be any proof for them, because God intended that we rely upon faith. How can you have faith in something you can't see? All you can do is seek God and find out if he does exist. If you find that he does, because he reveals himself to you the way that he has to me, then you will have something to base your faith on. And it will become a daily walk with God, a life full of miracles and wonder as he teaches you new things. Alas, BeardofPants, I have a lot less to say on the subject that we have gotten into on deep sea cores and uranium dating, for I know little about these things. Because of this, I don't feel myself as capable of entering into an argument/discussion with you. Although if you wish to PM me about these things, I can only repeat that I am (obviously) interested in these subjects, and would be happy to increase my knowledge. |
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