10-31-2002, 07:09 PM | #261 | |
Hoplite Nomad
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Quote:
ciao
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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10-31-2002, 07:15 PM | #262 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Theism - 27 pages The Anti-theist Thread - 57 pages You can find a lot opf my views already expressed in the Anti-Theist thread.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 10-31-2002 at 07:18 PM. |
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10-31-2002, 07:16 PM | #263 | |
Elf Lord
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Ah, I was talking to Lizra .
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10-31-2002, 07:20 PM | #264 |
Elf Lord
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I'd personally rather hear people's questions from themselves then read a closed topic. If people want to email or PM me on the topic, they can. If they want to continue inside this topic, I'm open to that too. If the whole thread closes entirely, I'm all right with that.
So basically, I'm not casting my vote as to which way this thread goes. The decision is up to the rest of you. |
10-31-2002, 07:24 PM | #265 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Well, I finished editing my 2:50 post, and in the meantime, a bunch of posts came in, and it's already history! But anyway, for anyone that's interested, it is finished, and I'd like your opinions.
And Lizra, I'm glad you don't have that vending machine mentality about prayer. It sure seemed to me that you did from your post, and many people do, so I addressed it. What do you think about the way that I presented prayer (or anyone else)? Does it make sense to you?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
10-31-2002, 07:24 PM | #266 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Quote:
I'm not saying not to continue this one - just there are two additional sources on people's beliefs if you're interested.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 10-31-2002 at 07:28 PM. |
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10-31-2002, 07:32 PM | #267 |
Elf Lord
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All right, thanks for the suggestion .
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10-31-2002, 07:35 PM | #268 | |
Elf Lord
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I can see praying just to pray, so something or someone, reveals itself to you, but not specifically to any god.
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“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell |
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10-31-2002, 09:23 PM | #269 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by R*an
[B And Lizra, I'm glad you don't have that vending machine mentality about prayer. It sure seemed to me that you did from your post, and many people do, so I addressed it. What do you think about the way that I presented prayer (or anyone else)? Does it make sense to you? [/B][/QUOTE Well, the vending machine mentality came from Leif. He said you didn't even need to belive in God, just pray that he reveals himself to you, and be sincere. He also said sometimes he answers your prayers sometimes he doesn't. That's where I came up with "pray and see what happens, eh?" Your thoughts on prayer are very nice, , but if you don't believe that God exists, then none of those nice things will happen. What I find impossible to believe is an afterlife, especially the bit about Heaven and Hell. Also, the Biblical miricles of the old testement, and the Creation story. I do believe that Jesus of Nazareth existed, and preached a powerful message of love, that moved many people, spawning the Christian relegion.
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10-31-2002, 11:36 PM | #270 | |
Viggoholic
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I am trying to be nice in this thread, since I do have some rather strong feelings on this topic. I believe that religious people simply distort the 'facts' (like the fact that God does't anwer all prayers, for example) so that they avoid being wrong. If I ask, if God created us, what about the fossil records which show that humans decended from ape-like creatures over millions of years? You will probably find some 'excuse', like the evidence is faulty or similar.
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Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try. |
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11-01-2002, 12:03 AM | #271 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Now the way Lief's statement ties in is that it is clearly stated in the Bible that it is God's will that all come to know Him, and that those that seek Him with all their hearts will find Him. However, this is where free will comes in - if you choose to not seek Him, then He will allow you to make that choice. And also, He may not answer it in a way that you would expect - for example, it might take a little time, because He knows that ultimately that will help your belief. Do you see the subtle (but extremely important) difference? When I pray for about something like "would you please help this person to get better", the answer may be - although it is extremely difficult for us to understand - a 'no'. For our best is not necessarily here on earth, and a person's death may affect people in many painful, but ULTIMATELY beneficial ways, that only God can see and know about.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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11-01-2002, 12:10 AM | #272 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Quote:
(it's the 1:46 pm post)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 11-01-2002 at 12:12 AM. |
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11-01-2002, 12:14 AM | #273 | ||
Elf Lord
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About God knowing what we want, well, yes. Have you ever read the Chronicles of Narnia? There's a part, I think in the first book (I haven't read them for a long time), when one of the children comments on why Aslan didn't give them food, since he knew they were hungry. Another one of the children replies something like: "Well, I think he's the kind that likes to be asked." Someone can't give you help if you won't accept it. Quote:
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“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell Last edited by Starr Polish : 11-01-2002 at 12:17 AM. |
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11-01-2002, 12:35 AM | #274 | |
Viggoholic
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SP: I like that quote from Narnia and yes, I am an agnostic.
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11-01-2002, 01:44 AM | #275 | ||||
Elf Lord
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As for whether praying as a last resort is better than nothing . . . I'd actually say that it isn't better. For God isn't likely to answer such a prayer, and could end up damaging your belief because the venting machine fails to operate. Quote:
Plenty of people do have a venting machine mentality, and I don't remember if I'm the one who brought it up here. But it is a common problem, and a good idea to address. Quote:
I think that evolution will eventually have far better accuracy and things in it will become a lot better defined then they are now. There is evidence to support swift evolution, and I'm personally more inclined to believe that than the longer term evolution which takes place over millions of years. The dating methods which show things to have existed for millions of years are debatable, anyway, and the longer term belief has some difficulties in it. For example, the fact that many different species are very different from each other, whereas if there was a slow evolution, then there would be many, many species which are closely related to each other. If on the other hand, as genetics have shown is the case with certain species, a species under stress or in difficult circumstances acts to keep itself alive by changing, this would give a reasonable explanation for the different species around the world which are unrelated to each other. Anyway, this is simply one opinion, and it could be mistaken. I do think that evolution has quite a few things right, but I think that they will discover a lot of new things that they didn't know before, and discard quite a few of the old beliefs. |
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11-01-2002, 02:14 AM | #276 |
the Shrike
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Guys, if you want to talk about praying and stuff, I suggest that you open up a new thread, because I am rather sick of having to plow through all these off-topic comments. I know that some people asked questions, but I now feel they have been answered. Can we get back to the topic at question? Evolution?
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11-01-2002, 02:25 AM | #277 |
Elf Lord
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That sounds reasonable to me. Is anyone interested in continuing this discussion in another topic, or should we let it drop, or continue it on PMs or emails? What is the general consensus?
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11-01-2002, 03:32 AM | #278 |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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LE, I'm curious as to why you believe dating methods are debatable. There is no real controversy in the Geology community about dating techniques, New discoveries are more related to precision than accuracy. Whether something is 800 million years old or 780 million does not change the fact that nothing in science today supports the chronology of the biblical creation story. Your example is somewhat flawed in that it doesn't take into consideration mass extinctions and periods of non-stress (the horseshoe crab has changed little in 780 million years) just to name a few.
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11-01-2002, 11:01 AM | #279 | |
Elf Lord
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There actually is dispute over the dating methods. My Dad has written two books which connect the creation and the Old Testament to science, and show what science made mistakes and how and why, and where everything correlates. Unfortunately, I cannot post those discoveries here, because as yet they are unpublished. I'll refer you to them the moment they are (Don't quite know when that will be ). In any case, I'm not knowledgable enough about the different dating methods to discuss them with you, unfortunately. BeardofPants didn't give me a very detailed example of what the other dating methods do and how they work, but I'll be keeping my eye out for information on that subject. Last edited by Lief Erikson : 11-01-2002 at 11:04 AM. |
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11-01-2002, 11:13 AM | #280 | |
Elf Lord
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I heard my Dad tell me once about an island upon which there was an endangered species, which was severely threatened because of changes in the environment. The scientists returned to the island and found that the old species was extinct, but they found four new species, all extremely closely related to the extinct one! I don't have any reason to believe that there have been enormous mass extinctions in Earth's past. I think it is a way of explaining the nonexistence of species that otherwise we would see examples of. I'd appreciate you or someone else giving some of the evidence that supports the existence of such extinctions. |
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